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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: Do you accept it might be legally questionable?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: Mr. Cody mentioned to Deputy Munster that neither revenue nor taxation was lost. However, the employer's PRSI contribution is different for a self-employed worker than for a PAYE worker. We all know that. Has Revenue done a calculation of the differential? It is a whole sector. It is being wound down and I see in the papers the witnesses supplied for today that it is down to two firms....

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: It is a different question I am asking. If these workers-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: I am not asking you to accept an argument.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: I am asking you to give an answer on this and maybe I am not putting it clearly enough. If the workers in that sector were employees as opposed to being grouped together and counted as self-employed from 1997 up to the discontinuation of the scheme, there is a huge differential there in PRSI contributions to the State. I ask for a "Yes" or "No" answer. Has Revenue done a calculation of the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: That is fair enough. That is fine.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: Could I ask Mr. Cody to come back to the Deputy in writing on that question? He has a calculation to make. I want to allow the other members to contribute.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: Very briefly.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: I want to let in the Comptroller and Auditor General.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: I want to let Mr. McCarthy in briefly. Two other committee members also want to contribute.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: I will ask about Perrigo's tax settlement in respect of the 2013 period. The original figure was €1.636 billion which, according to details in the correspondence, was the assessment set out by Revenue at the time. It related to intellectual property. As I understand it, there was a court judgment and the judge agreed with Revenue on the figure and the classification. The court...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: I have read the wording of what the judge said.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: I have read what the judge said and the direct quotation Mr. Cody included in the correspondence. I thank him for that. It was helpful and I understand it. The Revenue Commissioners were found to be correct in that case. I am trying to figure out, as a member of the committee, and I am sure many members of the public are also trying to figure out, whether it was treated as a capital...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: Of course. I am just trying to understand what happened.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: I will go back to Perrigo for a second. The figure was then reduced when various pieces of information were supplied. This was set out publicly in the letter. The figure was reduced to €967 million, if I recall correctly, and Perrigo seemed quite happy with that. The issue here is that-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: Let me finish the question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: Perrigo believed the maximum income tax claim in dispute was reduced to less than €1 billion. The final figure that Perrigo agreed to pay was €297 million. By the time the process was over, the figure was reduced to €266 million. The point I am making is that an ordinary taxpayer or member of the committee would look at that and see the initial figure was €1.63...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Controls over the Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme
Chapter 13 - Revenue's Management of Suspicious Transactions Reports
(2 Dec 2021)

Brian Stanley: The notice that issued on 29 November 2018 was for €1.63 billion. The point I am making is that at the end of the process, Perrigo finished up paying a figure of €266 million. I am trying to figure out whether the tax liability was calculated as 12.5% or 33%. I know we are not going to settle this today but we do not have much of an explanation as to how that figure was...

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