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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: I have to note the contrast between the two debates happening in the Oireachtas today. The Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill passing in the Chamber is asking the NTMA's Ireland Strategic Investment Fund not to hold any shares in fossil fuel companies while the NTMA is also the principal adviser to the Minister who has shares in the ESB. Moneypoint must be the biggest CO2 emitter in Europe perhaps...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: I could not avoid noting the contrast between the two debates.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Is Moneypoint safe?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: We will let someone else talk to Mr. Dorgan about that. I am moving on to the State Claims Agency legal costs on page 41. I have often raised this before. This is the "good public relations" that is done. On legal costs, "in 2017, the SCA settled 440 bills of costs received from third parties for €55.2 million - a reduction of 48% on the €106.9 million claimed". One would...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Which is the bigger end of it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Then perhaps a page or a chart on the tribunals could be put in the report.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: It is on page 46.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: That is fine and good for the tribunals but the main point I was raising was on the settlements and compensation, where the legal fees are consistently running above 50%.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: I appreciate that but the public will find it a little hard to take that for €1,000 paid out the solicitors are getting €500 on top of that, yet the SCA is saying it is doing great internationally. That is what I am being told. It does not feel great.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: The State Claims Agency has no control over it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: We understand that. The next page deals with mass actions. According to the annual report at the end of 2017 there were 34 active thalidomide related cases, 70 narcolepsy related cases and 92 active Shine abuse cases, none of them settled during the year. There are also 1,636 active in-cell sanitation cases relating to the prisons at the end of the year, only one of which was settled.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Without disclosing the agency's hand, why is the process so slow?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Is the appeal in respect of the breach of privacy?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: The whole case.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: There are effectively 1,635 cases waiting to be dealt with.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Breen has no idea what the outcome will be. I take it the State Claims Agency has made provision in its accounts in this regard.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: We will not ask Mr. Breen to disclose that for obvious reasons. I will move on now to page 52. There are nine staff in the organisation on salaries of over €300,000. Are the witnesses worth it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: I do not want to get prurient on the issue but it was important to make the point. I am moving on now to the NTMA's financial statement, page 92 which deals with the income and expenditure for the National Treasury Management Agency. Staff cost is €94 million and operating expenses is €21 million, which means the organisation costs about €116 million per annum.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: What is the level of expenditure for the NTMA and is it set out in the accounts?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts (Resumed)
Chapter 23: Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency (Resumed)
National Treasury Management Agency: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed)
(12 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: On what page?

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