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Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: -----or the access women will enjoy to all these services under the agreements. It has not yet been explained to me how the 300-year lease agreement undermines the provision of those services-----

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: -----or how it undermines the clinical, operational and financial independence of the new national maternity hospital. It does not.

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: The constitution of the hospital is very clear and the operating licence provided by the HSE to the new hospital is very clear about the obligation to implement and provide all services legally permissible under the law. It is not comparable to Roe v. Wade because the Oireachtas has acted here, and the people have acted via referendum.

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: We are not comparable to the judicial situation in the United States at all in this regard.

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: The Oireachtas has legislated here and the provision of all the services that legislation allows is, without question, legally guaranteed in a series of legal instruments that have been published. That is beyond question at this point.

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: Those words, "clinically appropriate", were imposed by the HSE in the legal document to make sure it would not be a cardiology hospital, a neurology hospital or whatever else. That is all that means.

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: It is not nonsense. The Deputy cannot just shout "Nonsense" across the floor. That is the reality. The golden share empowers the Minister to enforce the reserved powers within the constitution and the articles of association in terms of all available services. Do you think that Dr. Rhona O'Mahony, for example, a former master of Holles Street Hospital, is making this up? Do you think...

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: They are articulating very strong support for this. Or Mary Brosnan, director of midwifery and nursing at the National Maternity Hospital. Up to 52 clinicians who work in Holles Street are saying this should go ahead.

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: They are saying this deal-----

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: I think women would trust clinicians maybe more than lawyers in terms of a maternity hospital. I do not want to get into an argy-bargy across the floor of the House. My point is that clinicians are saying that we cannot tolerate any longer the substandard physical accommodation in Holles Street. All of us are saying that we all want it to happen quickly but not just now, let us go another...

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: Explain how it does. It does not. Deputy Bacik, who is a person of far greater legal reputation and expertise than my good self, knows deep down that 300 years at a cost of €10 per year is essentially public ownership by another name.

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: The real issue that was raised legitimately was the State's interest in this and guaranteeing that women will have access to all services that are legally permissible. That was a core issue that was raised some time ago around the whole proposal for co-location. That happened many years ago for the reason I have given, which is that people think that is the way to get the best outcomes....

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: What is Deputy McDonald's difficulty with a lease of 300 years, essentially, for €10 a year? Is that not, essentially, a gift of the land?

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: Of course, it is.

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: Sorry, it is. To all intents and purposes, it is 300 years at a tenner a year. What is the issue then? It will be operationally, financially and clinically independent. All of the legal documentation underpins that, that is, a variety of legal documents from the constitution of the hospital right across to the operating licence the HSE will be providing to the hospital, obliging it to...

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: My answer is that Deputy McDonald needs to come up with a more substantial argument than the one she has come up with because I am not clear at all-----

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: -----in terms of what the Deputy was saying in her presentation.

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: Deputy McDonald was not clear in terms of what she was quibbling with. Is she saying, for example, services will not be provided? It is not clear at all what Deputy McDonald is saying.

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: It was not.

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (4 May 2022)

Micheál Martin: At the outset, I would like to say that my only motivation here, as Taoiseach, is to ensure we make a decision that provides a modern, world-class maternity and neonatal hospital and facility for the women of Ireland now and into the future and that will allow all services legally permissible in the State now and into the future to be provided to the women of Ireland. That is the objective...

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