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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: This is the finance committee, however. I ask again that we are furnished with this. The issue here is very clear. These are significant loans for some of these countries. If there is a country which, through absolutely no fault of its own, is unable to pay back these loans because it is in an economic crisis from, perhaps, war in that country, this finance committee will be looking at...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: Is that the case here?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: For us, how much is that in a given year?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: Over the next ten years, for this particular instance, it is legitimate to have concerns if countries will not be able to pay it back. I am not expecting Ms Ralph to answer that particular part but it is legitimate to have concerns in relation to that. Is that done out? Do we know how much we are setting aside?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: I understand it is unprecedented but the way this is being sold to us in relation to SAFE is that we are in unprecedented times and we do not know what will happen. That is where the concern is. I thank Ms Ralph.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: I understand you are all saying this is unlikely but we are consistently told all this money has to be borrowed because there could be a war in a country. I do not see how billions and billions of borrowing can be paid back in a ten-year period by a country that could be devastated by war. The hope is that this will not be the case, but why is there €150 billion in militarisation?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: We can agree to disagree with different policy positions. We are focused on the financial aspect. I am aware an Teachta Shay Brennan has come in. I want to let him in. I will then let people in for a second round.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: We will let people in for a second round anyway so does the Deputy want to have a think and come back, or does he have one final question?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: We will move on to a second round of questions. An Teachta Doherty has indicated. If anybody else wishes to, that is okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: Does anyone else wish to contribute on the second round? If not, I will ask two brief questions. Deputy Brennan asked about how the money will be spent and how we can be sure that it is spent on what it was supposed to be spent on. We heard earlier from the Commission that whether or not states are abiding by the law will not preclude them and is not part of the analysis in relation to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: We do not know if the court will have a role in auditing this going forward. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: Would the Commission representatives know?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: What level of oversight will there be on the spending?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: No, I mean from yourselves. What guaranteed oversight will there be on the spend?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: No, from the Commission. You have just told me that the European Court of Auditors is independent and will make a decision by itself. Is there another mechanism whereby there will be oversight, perhaps from the Commission?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: My next question is for Dr. Condon. There was a question earlier relating to the Cohesion Fund and the social aspect of it. Dr. Condon mentioned the multi-annual financial framework but we do not know the exact details going forward. Am I correct in saying that the military will now be part of that and getting money from those funds?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: I accept that but the impact will be that some of that funding will not go into social developments but into military-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: I am not talking about us. I mean at a European level.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: Yes, but it can happen.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (15 Oct 2025)

Mairéad Farrell: They are only proposals but this is very much the route going forward, at an EU level, given everything we have discussed here today. The analysis that the Conflict and Environment Observatory gave us at that meeting suggests that spending money to address the environmental impact of climate change while at the same time putting money into areas which have directly negative consequences for...

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