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Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I disagree. The confidential process was the settlement that CHI made. I will come back to that in a second. The decision of whether CHI should or should not make a payment was a decision of the board.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Did the matter come before the board?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Given that it is an item referenced in the Comptroller and Auditor General's reports, is that not something Ms Nugent would have expected to have been asked here today?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I can understand Ms Nugent's argument that she is not at liberty to discuss the details of the settlement with the person. That is not the same as the reasoning as to why the appointment had to be made or a settlement had to be made.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: That was an attempt to retain her and her knowledge in the organisation. That is essentially what Ms Nugent is saying. Ms Nugent had to get sanction from the Department for this. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Is there anybody from the Department who wishes to comment on that?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Would it be reasonable-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Would it be reasonable for the public to accept that a fixed-term contract is for that purpose, a fixed term, and the organisation should not be exposed to any liability as a result of it coming to an end? I am at a loss about why there was a need to enter into any sort of discussions at the end of a fixed-term period if the board itself was deciding not to renew the contract.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: As a result, the board did not renew the contract.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: If it was a fixed-term contract, why did the liability result?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Exactly. My question is why the liability arose.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Surely the Department, in signing off a severance package, would have had to consider why a liability arose as a result of a fixed-term contract. I am saying that as a general point. Our job is only to investigate why public money is being spent. I am asking a very basic question. Why did we decide to spend public money on this? I think the answer should be “The rationale is X, Y...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: My question is why did a severance-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I am sorry. Why did a settlement arise? That is the question. Why was there a need to pay an additional payment - a settlement, as the C and AG points out? Why was a settlement paid at the conclusion of a fixed-term contract? It is a reasonable question.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I have limited time. I am very unhappy we do not have an answer to that.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: It is a very reasonable question. Turning to the failure to secure €250,000 from private insurers as a result of late payments, does Ms Nugent have a response to that?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Is it likely that any of this €250,000 might be recouped in a future year?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Which office has responsibility overall for this claim process?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: The CEO referenced third parties. Third parties are necessarily part of that process - I understand that - but the responsibility to claim the amounts falls with CHI. Why did that not take place?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: They were issued to the insurers.

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