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Seanad: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2024: Second Stage (2 Jul 2024)

Paul Daly: Is that agreed? Agreed.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: He can leave the Chair if he wants to leave at 7 p.m.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: I welcome the witnesses under unfortunate circumstances brought about by the programme. My party colleague, Deputy Flaherty, got into the passport issue with Horse Sport Ireland and, because of time constraints, I was to follow on from that if he was not finished. I am in an awkward position now that he is gone so I will leave that with him. I ask Mr. Duggan to explain the following from...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: It came across very clearly in the programme that the transaction was done on this side. There was another horse that again had a false identity. It was not the horse it was meant to be either. If you remember rightly, a girl fell off the horse because it was supposed to be a calm jumper and it said as such in all its breeding information and documentation. However, it was a glorified...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: Yes, I know how the system works-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: How is it tampered with?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: With the greatest of respect, Mr. Sheahan said he is surprised or shocked, but he is a Department official. The person who said it in a court of law is a Department official. It was the Department that was inspecting this process. It is the Department that is accountable. We have heard from the other bodies, but the Department is the enforcer here. It was one of the Department’s...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: I think I am safe in saying this and that it does not interfere with the case. That appeal was decided and it is on record here before me. Mr. Sheahan says he is surprised but that is not an acceptable answer to me. I am quoting what is written in black and white before me, which states that a colleague of his is saying that the paperwork was done retrospectively-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: -----post-ops. Being surprised about this does not wash.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: As a layperson, can you see how the system is broken, if a Department vet is saying that the paperwork was being done retrospectively? This is the same Department that was supposed to be inspecting and following the horse from life through the abattoir process and making sure the carcase matched the passport and microchip.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: There is a breakdown in the process. There is a breakdown in the Department. There is a breakdown in communication within the Department. As I said, and I hate getting people to repeat themselves, but this is a Department official who said this, and Mr. Sheahan has said that he has seen the same statement. It is on the court record.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: That is an admission by a Department official that the paperwork is being done retrospectively.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: Does Mr. Sheahan not think he needs to go back to Agriculture House this evening and do something about this? It should not have happened. This is on his watch.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: That is where I am coming from. We cannot change the past. We are all here with a view to improving the future.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: -----how we are going to get to the bottom of it, but-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: What are you going to do about it? You said you have seen it yourself in black and white. It is a Department official. It should not have happened. You are shocked that it did happen, but you are agreeing that it must have happened-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: What are you going to do about it? That is the question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: There again, with the greatest of respect, if it had not been for the RTÉ programme, would that case even have happened? Would those carcases be destroyed now? It was your job before the programme, if you were doing your job, to make sure that never happened. A knee-jerk reaction post the programme, as has been quoted somewhere else, is not good enough.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: I am sorry, the Leas-Chathaoirleach wants to go in himself. I forgot about him. I reserve the right to come back.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Welfare, Treatment and Traceability of Horses: Discussion (26 Jun 2024)

Paul Daly: I have one question for HRI just before we finish. When we have meetings like this coming up we get correspondence from people. I got some correspondence that HRI would have got information in 2022 about irregularities with microchips internationally, or whatever. In such a circumstance, if it is true, what does HRI do with that? As has been pointed out to Senator Boyhan, HRI is not the...

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