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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: It is fair to say, notwithstanding the fact that people have their accommodation, food and medical needs provided for directly along with very low rates of subsistence, it is not a desirable medium to long-term solution. There are individual freedoms a person does not have because he or she is in a centre. We have the figures on how long people are in these centres and I will get to those...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: I will stop Mr. O'Driscoll there. When officials from the Department of Justice and Equality and RIA were before the committee two years ago - Mr. O'Driscoll's predecessor was here - I put it on the record that what Mr. O'Driscoll has described has not been my experience across the board. I have had experience of having to visit reception centres in the past. Things have changed,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: I am not the only person to whom this happened. A number of organisations, including non-governmental organisations, were invited in to assist and support people who were living in these centres. As Mr. O'Driscoll has spoken about rights, I should mention that people have a right to vote in local elections. I was refused permission to canvass even though everyone has a right to canvass Mr....

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: I accept that. It is a fair point for Mr. O'Driscoll to make as Accounting Officer. I have no difficulty with that. I agree that positive changes have been made. I have seen them on the ground in my constituency of Waterford. I fully accept that. I think we have a long way to go as well. I ask Mr. Kirrane to come back in on the changes that have been made with the asylum process and...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: Okay. If I can just come to the-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: Fourteen months. Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: Can I ask for a note to be given to us on that? I think those changes are positive as well. They are very much welcome. While I accept that the targets are genuine, I would like to get them in writing. That would allow us to hold Mr. O'Driscoll and Ms McPhillips to account when they are before us again. The targets are very welcome.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: I would like to follow on from that by asking about the note that was provided in respect of the length of time people spend in reception centres. Approximately 10.5% of people in reception centres have been there for between four and seven years. This is quite a high figure. If it is the case that the asylum processes are getting faster - if applications are being processed more quickly -...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: Yes. Why are people in the system for between four and seven years?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: Can I ask-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: Okay. Almost 30% of people have been waiting for between two years and seven years, which again is quite high.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: At local authority level, weekly meetings take place to look at all the cases in which people have ended up in emergency accommodation or been classed as homeless. What work is done by the Department on a weekly basis with regard to the 10.5% cohort or the 20% cohort I have mentioned? I understand that in some cases, there may be judicial reviews or there may be other issues. Are the cases...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: Would Mr. O'Driscoll have data regarding what percentage of the 10.5% remain in direct provision because they are awaiting judicial review? I am not asking him to give us names of individuals but to furnish the committee with a breakdown of the status of the people within that 10.5% figure. It would assist us in identifying if it is the case that people are awaiting the court process and,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: It is stated in the information already provided and in a report in The Irish Timesthat there are over 500 asylum seekers living in hotels and bed and breakfast accommodation. This issue may have been raised earlier. According to this media report, there were 196 asylum seekers in emergency accommodation in November of last year. By February of this year, that number had increased to 329...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: According to the information provided, the cost of that provision is €4.5 million per annum. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: It is very expensive.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: Would it not be more cost effective if we were dealing with them directly rather than in emergency accommodation?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

David Cullinane: I understand that. The answer is to build new accommodation centres. I know there were difficulties in some areas around opening centres, which Deputy MacSharry went through earlier, and maybe some other speakers did as well. Some were due to open and there were fire problems and other issues. Is there a difficulty with opening reception centres in areas? Is it the case that the...

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