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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: We are not aware of any case where they are not applied. What has emerged are cases where people are getting top-ups from the private sphere or from non-public sources, and they come as a surprise.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: Yes. There were two other questions.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: With regard to the valuation Bill process, we published the Valuation (Amendment) Bill in August 2012 and that Bill proceeded through Second Stage in the Seanad in October 2012. We have had many significant submissions in that regard and we have been involved in discussions. I hope to get back into Committee Stage in the Seanad with that Bill in the not too distant future. As I stated...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: There will be significant additional resources allocated to ensure it proceeds. With regard to procurement, tenders will make sense for the specific product. It is a national rather than a local market, so we will not have local procurement in that sense. One will not travel from Donegal to Wexford, for example, in order to provide a cleaning service in the offices of the Environmental...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: We are considering banking and banking services as part of general procurement. We will keep the committee in touch with what is happening.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: Those three particular areas are all important and I will try to give the Deputy a general response as best I can. We were conscious of the pensions liability that was accruing. One of the first actions that we took in government was to introduce the new single public service pension Bill, which became an Act. That scheme was commenced and has been operable since 1 January 2013....

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: Our general pay policy is that we do not approve top-ups. We have indicated this across all spheres of the public sector. We, the Committee of Public Accounts and others have discovered where this policy has not been implemented. We need to drill down into those situations.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: We have written to them all to ensure that the norms of public sector pay are applied. We will ensure that is the case.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: I do not have details on the JobBridge payment off the top of my head but we will get them for the Deputy. The Deputy probably knows what they are. I do not know.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: There you are.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: No, but these people do and-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: Has the Deputy spoken to any of them?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: Yes, I have spoken to all of them.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: As the Deputy knows, the general rule is that more than 40% of the people involved in JobBridge have gone into full-time employment before their internship ended. The figure is 65%. We need to ensure people have opportunities at a time of significant unemployment. I do not know whether the Deputy is just philosophically opposed to the concept of JobBridge. I have dealt with examples where...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: I will reply by simply stating I disagree with the Deputy.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: Allow me to reply at least. We need to think outside the box in terms of significant unemployment. We could allow people to be excluded from work where we could not provide numbers. The Deputy is correct there was a crudeness about some of what we had to do, such as the moratorium, but these measures were necessary because the very economic survival of the country's depended on us...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: So then we would not have any JobBridge scheme-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: No, it is very simple; the Deputy's view is one lets people sit at home and exclude them from it.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: When one does not have the wherewithal or capacity to pay people they are left at home. Is this what the Deputy states?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 11 - Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 16 - Valuation Office (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - Shared Services (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 41 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
(15 Jan 2014)

Brendan Howlin: Measures on procurement are some of the most ambitious we want to take. We carried out a comprehensive review to examine procurement and we found extraordinary anomalies whereby various agencies of the State bought the same products from the same companies at different prices. There were some cosy arrangements at local level. We need to have value for money for the State. We want to make...

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