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Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: It is definite that there were process failures. People should be big enough to recognise that if there were failings on their part, those failings should be accepted and learned from. We say this to everybody who comes before us. There are many lessons to be learned from this project.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: I know the Secretary General has accepted that. I have two more questions and then I will be finished.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: That was stated several times at the health committee so I accept it. I know this was dealt with in the report on the conflicts of interest and the Secretary General responded by stating he stands over his view there were no conflicts of interest. Where in the PwC report does it state it was giving high level advice to the board on this project?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: Why not?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: No, we have it here that some of the PwC personnel involved in providing a high level input also formed part of the much larger team that conducted the review. Does Mr. McCarthy see this as something that should be declared and should at least be included in a report?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: Is it something Mr. McCarthy will be examining at some point?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: It strikes me there is something fundamentally wrong when it is not even acknowledged or declared. Conflicts of interest can be avoided if there is a declaration. There is not even a declaration. Questions were asked of Mr. Breslin and others when they were here previously regarding conflicts of interest and a relationship between PwC and this particular project. To my knowledge we were...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: It was well aware of that. Why were we not told?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: The committee might take a different view. That is up to the committee.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: The Department has responsibility for healthy living-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: -----and healthy eating.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: A Big Mac, fries and a Coke would not be part of that I would imagine. How is it that McDonald's, of all places, would be part of funding this?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: Yes. It is Ronald McDonald House.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: I do not dispute the quality of any service delivered but Mr. Breslin must accept that for some people this is about the national children's hospital and children's health. We have seen several conflicts previously with regard to cigarette companies sponsoring sports. Eventually we saw this was flawed and that there was an issue. Does Mr. Breslin not see any issue or concern with regard to...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: Not as the company-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: I do not think we can divorce the two.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: I certainly would not agree with that. They are very well connected. Philanthropy was meant to form a significant role in funding this project but the philanthropic funds that were anticipated did not come onstream. Is Ronald McDonald House one of the only few that did come on board?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: At the previous meeting, Mr. Breslin gave us a breakdown of what was estimated with regard to philanthropic funding and what was achieved. At that point, he acknowledged we do not have what we had hoped.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

David Cullinane: The two-stage process has been talked about an awful lot. Can Mr. Breslin quickly crystallise for us what it involved, especially the second part? Am I right in saying that phase 1 did not have a fully worked out design cost?

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