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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: What about those people?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Does the Minister accept that fewer than half of the households on the lowest 10% of incomes receive the fuel allowance payment?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I made that clear in the point I made about taxation measures and whether the Government wants to raise revenue, as this will do, and have the effect of making those households, including more than half of those households on the lowest 10% of incomes in the State which do not get any fuel allowance payment that the Government will now make poorer. There is an argument in the area of...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Taxation has an effect on behavioural change but people need to be provided with the changes and those are not in place. We supported the tax on sugar and sweetened drinks because there was an alternative. We support increased excise duty on tobacco products because there is an alternative. We do not support an increase in home heating oil, coal and petrol at this point in time because...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: It is the experts the Minister talks about who argue for an increase in carbon tax. Does the Minister know who founded it? Let me tell him. It was founded by ExxonMobil and Shell among others. Oil exploration companies founded this body. I do not suggest its comments are not valid but let us be clear that the major polluters in the world support this measure and welcome it because of the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: The Climate Leadership Council.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister mentioned the experts whom he has quoted before here in relation to the Nobel peace prize. That is why I refer to them.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Because the Minister has mentioned them in the past. As he does, the Minister mentioned some of these Nobel peace prize winners selectively. I have not heard the Minister mention the fact that some of them are arguing for him to accept the Apple money and drop the case. Joseph Stiglitz is one example. If Apple loses that case, it will bring in €14.3 billion to the State, which...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister has done so at previous committee meetings. He has referred to the Nobel peace prize winners and their suggestions on carbon tax.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: No.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: It is because the Minister has offered that view on previous occasions at committee. Of course, it is relevant. Is the Minister trying to suggest that everything he has said heretofore should be ignored completely?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Is that in relation to the introduction of carbon tax at this time?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I do not. That is blatantly obvious.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: On this issue in terms of introducing a carbon tax at this time when there is no alternative for individuals and the facts are very clear from the ESRI that this will make the poorest households in the State poorer, I do not agree with it.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: No. We have made that point clear. Indeed, one of the major issues is one I have discussed here previously. The Minister can read the transcripts if he wishes. We have discussed carbon tax with John FitzGerald, who chairs the advisory council, and the real polluters out there who are not being addressed because of the European system. The Minister will also see in my discussions with...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: That is blatantly obvious. I am opposing the section of the Bill which imposes a carbon tax at this time.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Yes. If there is-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Carbon taxes have a role to play. Let us be clear on this. If the Minister wants me to write the Finance Bill, I am more than willing to do it for him right this second.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Carbon taxes have a role to play to change behaviour but only when there is an opportunity for that behaviour to change.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed) (6 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I am not.

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