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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: I thank the Chairman for the opportunity to appear before this select committee to consider the 2019 Estimates for Votes 1 to 6, inclusive. The committee was supplied with a detailed briefing document on the various Votes in advance of this meeting. I will outline the work of my Department and its proposed 2019 Estimate as well as the proposed 2019 Estimate for the President's...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: I thank the Deputy for her questions. The first one relates to tribunals. I imagine she is including commissions of investigation in that because the Moriarty tribunal is the only tribunal extant under my Department. It is never possible to know what the final cost will be because it will depend on third-party legal fees and many other things. When it ends will depend on how long it takes...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: Yes. Again this is something we should all bear in mind. Not a week goes by that an Opposition spokesperson or leader does not call for an inquiry, commission of investigation or tribunal to investigate something. While they may well be merited, we need to bear in mind the time they take and the fact that they often do not give people the answers they want or need and that they cost the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: I would respectfully ask the Deputy not to put words in my mouth. This is too important an issue to play politics with. The cause of homelessness and the housing crisis is a lack of supply of housing and a lack of affordable housing but there are plenty of other factors involved as well. Those of us who are interested in this area and have spent time visiting facilities and NGOs will...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: What is that?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: I thank the Deputy. He asked me about my interview this morning on Newstalk. I was asked if I found any aspect of the national children's hospital controversy scandalous, and I said that I did. What I found to be scandalous was that some of our agents - agents employed by Government, albeit indirectly through the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board - underestimated the costs so...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: That is something I need to study more closely. I know it is not a new idea - it has been around for quite some time. I know the Deputy's party has put it forward that credit unions should be able to lend for housing construction. I am not entirely sure that that is a Government decision at the end of the day. It may be a matter for the Central Bank to decide whether they can do that. I...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: I think that is correct. A lot of local authorities have lost practice and have lost the corporate knowledge when it comes to building housing. What the LDA can become is a house-building semi-State that builds houses in the way the ESB builds electrical infrastructure, Gas Networks Ireland does the same in respect of gas, and so on. On the credit union issue, I do not want to pretend to...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: Therefore, one needs to have large capital ratios to insulate oneself for when things go wrong. Maybe the Deputy is absolutely right, but we just need to bear in mind those factors. We need to protect people's small savings in the credit unions and we need to make sure that any interest rate that the Government would pay to borrow for development would not be a high one. It would make no...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: I am, Deputy, and I will. I do not think I have all the answers. I will do that. That is a reasonable suggestion.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: On broadband, and as I have indicated in the Dáil on a number of occasions, we do not yet have a preferred bidder. We have one bidder left, yet to be designated as the preferred bidder. We have yet to make a decision as to whether we go ahead with the national broadband programme. The cost is going to be multiples of what was projected many years ago. Going ahead would not have a...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: I cannot remember the exact figure, but any impact on 2019 would be between zero and €11 million. It would be minimal.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: I cannot say that until the contracts are signed. That would be the case for any project.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: It is Government policy that it should proceed. This is something that we want to do. We have got to the point where, from three years ago where only about 50% of premises in the country had access to high-speed broadband, it is up to around 80% now. That is mainly private sector driven, but there is very much a Government role involved, too. However, that still leaves about 500,000...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: There is no certainty on any project until the contract is signed.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: Yes. The cost-benefit analysis is being updated, obviously recognising that the benefit is the same but the cost is higher.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: Ultimately, the decision on whether it proceeds will be one made democratically by politicians. There have been projects that have proceeded with a negative cost-benefit analysis.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: I am not saying it is negative, by the way. It is not simple. There are many projects that did not happen although there was a very high benefit-cost ratio. There are others, such as the western rail corridor and the motorway between Carlow and Waterford, that had a low benefit-cost ratio but still went ahead. Therefore, it is not just a mathematical decision as to whether the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: I have knowledge based on that last briefing I got from the Department.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2019
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(28 Feb 2019)

Leo Varadkar: Not a definitive one but the likely range.

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