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Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: Mr. Daly and NAMA had a general knowledge that there was a relationship between Mr. Cushnahan and Tughans. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: That is a little vague, but we can take it as read.

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: We have the extraordinary situation then that Mr. Cushnahan, one of the NAMA people on the board in the North - Mr. Daly is the chairman and he is in charge - has this relationship and shared accommodation with Tughans Solicitors, which, in turn, has a relationship with Brown Rudnick. In case Mr. Daly does not know it, let me break it to him that there is a belief that Mr. Cushnahan was...

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: To a number of parties, one presumes. We have the extraordinary situation - Mr. Daly has confirmed it today - that Tughans had this relationship with Mr. Cushnahan and, in turn, with Brown Rudnick, which was acting on behalf of potential bidders and purchasers. Mr. Daly said in his evidence earlier that Tughans also acted on behalf of a number of debtors. Is that not quite some web?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: I know that. Is that not quite some web?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: None the less, Mr. Daly has told me he became aware of the shared accommodation in September 2013, having had a generalised sense of a relationship between Frank Cushnahan and Tughans. He remains on the board of NAMA until November 2013. He exits stage left, and the following month NAMA is approached by Brown Rudnick. It is all very tightly sequenced, is it not?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: The issue of Brown Rudnick and the two clients has been explored, one being PIMCO - we do not know who the second is. That is not known to Mr. Daly. Can Mr. Reid say is it known to the Department?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: It becomes known to NAMA fairly snappily who the first client is because the direct approach is made. In a remarkable sequence, this letter demonstrates that in June 2013 it is the view of Brown Rudnick and its clients that it should be a job lot, or single sale, and the board of NAMA signs off on that approach by January 2014.

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: I am talking about a job lot - a single lot - not a closed sale. The bundling up of these-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: NAMA finally lands on that approach and that decision, if I heard Mr. Daly correctly, in January 2014. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: Then the issue of the problematic or irregular payment emerges. We now know that was £15 million and that there was to be a three-way cut on it. In this document, Mr. Daly states that on 10 March he received a telephone call. Will Mr. Daly confirm that I am getting this right?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: In fact, it is on 12 March that Mr. Daly gets the detail of the payment. Was that by way of another phone call or was it in a meeting?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: Who from PIMCO told him this?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: At this stage did Mr. Daly inform the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, of this turn of events?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: The Minister was aware on 12 March that it was-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: Thank you.

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: He was informed of the nature of the payment and its scale - that it was £15 million to be divided in these proportions.

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: Presumably the Minister was alarmed at that turn of events.

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: At no stage did he have a conversation with Mr. Daly about suspending the entire sales process, given this irregularity.

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2014 (9 Jul 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: So we then move on and a new situation emerges. The extraordinary thing here is that the only change of actor in the final leg of this process is the purchaser. It moves from PIMCO to Cerberus, but our friends in Brown Rudnick and Tughans Solicitors are still involved.

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