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Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: I think Mr. Kelly is missing the point. We will move on.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: I know they are separate agreements but Mr. Kelly is saying that this one-year agreement was contained within a five-year agreement and I am asking if he can point out specifically where there is mention of a commercial element.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: We will move on. I refer to the six outstanding gigs that Mr. Kelly has referenced. When questioned about the two payments of €75,000, RTÉ said it was legally obliged to make those payments. Mr. Kelly is saying that with regard to the six gigs, that element has not been honoured at this stage. Is RTÉ wrong in saying it was legally obliged to make those two payments, if...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: We have established that after year one, Renault was no longer paying. It is out of the picture. It was RTÉ that was paying the two €75,000 payments, through some mechanism that was contrived to hide them. Where is the legal obligation on RTÉ to pay those two payments if Mr. Kelly is saying the six gigs that have not been honoured cannot be honoured because there is no...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: On that basis, will those two payments, that €150,000, be repaid to RTÉ?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: But Renault is no longer part of the equation so Mr. Tubridy cannot do gigs for it.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: We will move on. Mr. Kelly said he did not really have a personal relationship with the director general. What about his relationship with the director of commercial, Geraldine O'Leary? What kind of relationship would he say he had with her?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: Mr. Kelly had no real relationship with Geraldine O'Leary.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: A lot has come to light about the barter accounts and the misuse of the barter accounts, the slush fund, the trips abroad and everything else that went with it. Did Mr. Kelly avail of any of those things from RTÉ, such as trips abroad, golf events, wining and dining or anything like that?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: Yes or no – did Mr. Kelly avail of any of those?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: I asked did Mr. Kelly personally-----

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: I am sorry, but I asked a specific question.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: Mr. Kelly did not receive any benefit from RTÉ in terms of trips abroad, wining and dining, golf outings or anything. Did any of his staff members?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: Would any of his staff members have received such things?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: In terms of sending gifts from Mr. Kelly's company to anyone in RTÉ, is that something he would do?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: Okay. With regard to the issuing of the false invoices, Mr. Kelly would be acutely aware of the responsibilities for company directors to ensure their actions are legal, ethical and in the best interests of the company, and the due diligence that must be applied. There is an onus of responsibility on Mr. Kelly in that regard. He has stated from the outset, and has held the line on this,...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: Ignorance is no defence. I am asking Mr. Kelly, in hindsight, if he thinks he did his job in issuing those invoices. I am not asking whose instructions he was acting under.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: I know that and I am trying to get an answer.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: I am asking Mr. Kelly, in hindsight, about the issuing of those two invoices for consultancy fees when it has been established that no consultancy was provided by Mr. Kelly or Mr. Tubridy. Does Mr. Kelly stand over the assertion that those invoices were issued correctly and in accordance with the law?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

John Brady: I have one final question. I just want to establish a clear timeline in terms of the engagement with Deloitte and who knew what when. I tried to establish that earlier. Mr. Tubridy said earlier that he found out about the Deloitte review on which date?

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