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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: They want to discuss the long-term movement of Government accounts from a cash-based accounting system to an accrual accounting system, as is the norm in the private and commercial sector. They will ask us to make an input to the discussion. I ask members to allow me to use my discretion, as Chairman, go give my views on behalf of the committee. Staff from the secretariat will accompany me...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: No. I have written some speaking notes.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: I am going to raise the issue of NAMA-type organisations being off the State balance sheet. I want to put it on the public record. The public does not understand this. As we all know, NAMA was created when the Government took over the banks on behalf of the State and the taxpayer. I will explain this in two sentences. The Government did not want that on the State balance sheet.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: If I am not 100% right, Mr. McCarthy can correct me down the line. The principle of what I am saying is as follows: the idea of setting up an organisation called the NAMA Group was developed in the Department of Finance. The NAMA Group has a shareholding of €100 million. Some 51% of it is owned by the private sector. One of the insurance companies - Irish Life - owned some of the...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: Yes. The 51% is off the State balance sheet because it is technically in private ownership. It is a great con job. Europe and everyone signed up to that mechanism to get it off the State balance sheet. Logically, it should be part of the State apparatus. It is not on the State balance sheet. I want to raise those types of accounting issues. I know we are about to talk to...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: I say all of this to clear up what has to happen next Wednesday. Deputy Burke and I will talk to the nerds from the OECD about boring accounting stuff next Wednesday. We have concluded our discussion on the work programme. People know where we are. An invitation for next Tuesday will be sent to the Accounting Officer, Mr. Martin Fraser. A delegation from the committee will meet...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: We will have it next week.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: Deputy Kelly wants to come in on the same issue.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: Everyone could speak on this matter, so I will close it off.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: We all know it.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: We will ask for it to be considered on the work programme.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: We will discuss it next Thursday.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: I will suspend the sitting briefly while the witnesses take their seats.

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: Our meeting today will deal with NAMA's financial statements for 2016 and 2017 and the Comptroller and Auditor General's special report No. 102 on the National Asset Management Agency second progress report, which was published during the course of the summer. We are joined by Mr. Frank Daly, chairman of NAMA, Mr. Brendan McDonagh, chief executive, Mr. Alan Stewart, chief legal officer and...

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. McCarthy for that extensive opening statement. He had a special report over and above what we normally have here. I invite Mr. McDonagh to make his opening statement. He is very welcome. It has been quite a while since he was here so it is good to have him back.

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. McDonagh for another extensive and comprehensive opening statement. The lead speakers today are Deputies Peter Burke, who has 20 minutes, and David Cullinane, who has 15 minutes. All other members will have ten minutes and they have indicated in the following sequence: Deputies Alan Kelly, Catherine Connolly, Marc MacSharry and Catherine Murphy.

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: On that case, did the State recover the full par value of the loan?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: That is all I am asking. There was no surplus-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: Correct.

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

Seán Fleming: I am just making the point that if more than the bank debt had been cleared, some of it might have gone back, but it did not. It is just an example of how bad the first loan was------

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