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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: On the slow pace of implementation, I want to be very clear. I was referring to the pace at which the new specifications are coming on stream and the fact that it has taken considerable time to formulate the new specifications for the new curricula across SPHE and RSE. Specifically on the issue of implementation in respect of information in our schools, I want to be very clear, and I was...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: What is laid down in the curriculum will be followed.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: It means the curriculum will be followed in our schools as laid down when it comes to factual, appropriate, up-to-date information. However, on the curricula being devised, the Deputy will note there is considerable public consultation. With regard to every stage of curriculum development, including in respect of the specifications for RSE in the junior cycle, for example, the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: No, I want to be clear.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: If the answer and the information I give the Deputy are correct the first time, they will be correct when asked for by her the second and third time, irrespective of how she frames the question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: To be fair, we have given the information as it is available to us. We have acknowledged that there is a significant body of work involved in the specifications for each of the levels, junior cycle, senior cycle and primary school. To reiterate with absolute clarity, the junior cycle specification is due to be published in the coming weeks.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: If I may speak, that is, the proposed specifications for the curriculum are due to be published in the coming weeks. It is appropriate that they go to public consultation. It is very important - and I have reiterated this a number of times - that there be an opportunity for everyone to engage across all the different levels and to feed into the specifications, whether parents, the student...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: The public consultation, most likely, because we will need the input of our schools, which is appropriate-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: If I may clarify-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: Most prominently, I think most of the work will be done while the schools are in session. That would be September. Everything is to be completed for roll-out in our schools in September 2023.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: With implementation in 2023. That is what we have said. I have said that previously. It is a matter of public knowledge.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: I will clarify that there are three different programmes. Deputy Carroll MacNeill will accept that one cannot have the same programme for each of the three different levels, primary, junior cycle and senior cycle.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: Obviously, they will be at three different stages of development.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: And that is why I gave the Deputy-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: I gave the Deputy the absolute timelines towards which we are working.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: If I miss something, the Senator can come back to me. I absolutely acknowledge the importance of CSPE. I just want to point out that while it is not an exam subject, there is a current increase to 100 hours allocation on our timetables for CSPE. It is part of the well-being framework in our schools as well. However, that is just one tool, if you like, or subject area in terms of addressing...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: Specifically on the last point that the Deputy raised on schools not having facilities to uptake a course where she specifically referenced computer science, an enormous amount of money has been delivered into schools in digital technology. Indeed, if the Deputy were to speak directly with the schools, they would acknowledge that. Last year alone there was over €100 million.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: I know. I understand.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: I absolutely appreciate what the Deputy said. I am just making the point that there is more than €100 million, and €50 million again at the start of this year, specifically for digital side of technology and all of that. On the availability of particular traditionally gender-based subjects being made available, first, the Department is absolutely committed to resourcing these...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (19 May 2022)

Norma Foley: On the CSPE, I know the Senator is making the point in good faith about the examinations status of CSPE. With absolute respect, I disagree with her on the importance of it being an examinations subject. I do not believe that it has to be an examinations subject to be of importance in the school. There are many aspects of school that are not examinations regimented, as it were, and they are...

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