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Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: I have listened to Mr. McKeon-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Through the Chair-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: This is my time.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: I do want to hear the answer.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: I will let Mr. McKeon give the answer in a moment but I will not be bullied or prevented from putting questions to him. It is my time and I am putting questions to him. If I believe I am not getting the answers, I will ask him to stop because I want to put further questions to him or to clarify what he has said.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Mr. McKeon is entitled to give the answer but he was not answering. I listened to what he stated but it was not an acceptable answer.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: No, I did not. I let him speak for one minute and did not hear anything acceptable to me.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: It is fair to say the Department received fair wind in the response. Mr. McKeon's is not the opinion of the Data Protection Commissioner.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: We are entitled to give our views as individuals. What Mr. McKeon stated is not my view, either. It was not a reasonable way to respond.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: I do not think it was, and I am entitled to my opinion.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: More importantly in this case, as I can have my opinion, the Data Protection Commissioner also has her opinion. A response was received to a parliamentary question, which I put to the Data Protection Commissioner and which I also will put to Mr. McKeon. The reply stated:The Department sought to meet the DPC on two occasions since receipt of the report with a view to outlining the basis for...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: When was the Data Protection Commissioner not prepared to meet? It is important.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: On what date was she not prepared to meet?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: I wish to read from the Data Protection Commissioner's evidence to the committee. Ms McCrum stated she was not prepared to meet.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Let us read from what she stated because the Department's responses to my questions are defensive, which is fine but it shows that it was the same sort of approach to that taken to the Data Protection Commissioner, and to that in a number of other areas where the Department deals with individuals and organisations, which I will address in a moment. Ms Dixon stated she had indicated in her...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Why was the offer not taken up? It was because the implementation plan had not been put in place. Is that not correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: I am putting to Mr. McKeon not my opinion but that of the Data Protection Commissioner, what was in her report and what she stated to the committee. She said to the committee that of course she was willing to meet at the appropriate time when she first got a response. She had directed that there be an implementation plan and she felt that it was appropriate for that plan to be put in place...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: No, but the Minister had a difficulty with it. The parliamentary question suggested that the Data Protection Commissioner, unfairly in my view, was not willing to meet. In fact, Ms McCrum, when she initially answered the question, said that on that date in August, the Data Protection Commissioner was not in a position to meet. The commissioner added a caveat that the implementation plan...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: I have one more question but I need to make the point that the Data Protection Commission was clear that there is a difference between findings and rulings. The Data Protection Commissioner makes rulings and has statutory powers. One of the points she made is that there is a growing awareness in some Departments about the role of the commissioner's office. It is not an advisory role, but...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Maybe Mr. McKeon could make it a bit clearer for me.

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