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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: The Deputy has it there.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: It is 10.10 p.m. and it is clear that Deputy Doherty does not accept what I said. It is a verbal distinction. I am sorry if Deputy Doherty does not understand it.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: It might be helpful to point out that a guideline is a framework in which something will happen.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: I am just talking about the two words together. A verbal distinction is made between guidelines and instructions. I presume an instruction is something that is mandatory; that one must do. A guideline specifies that one must have regard to an issue and a decision must be within those parameters. A guideline as opposed to an instruction allows some flexibility on the outcome.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Deputy Doherty should get an English dictionary.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: I am advised that the words "order" and "instruction" are used because-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: The amendment relates to the functions of NewERA; the ISIF is dealt with in a different section. We spoke on Second Stage about the role of the ISIF, what it could do and how it might become involved in the provision of social housing. The key point is that any investment by the investment fund must be commercial - in other words, the expenditure it makes cannot go on the State balance...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Infrastructural projects involve significant investment proposals. NewERA does have plans in this regard and can advise Ministers on issues such as broadband investment and so on. Any investment, particularly from the ISIF, must have a commercial outcome, but this does not exclude NewERA from working with the investment fund or making proposals to other parties which, because they have the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Amendment No. 21 would mean the agency acting as NewERA would be able to develop proposals for investment in social housing in addition to the sectors of energy, water, communications and forestry already set out. The sectors I have listed are those in which the large commercial semi-State bodies on which NewERA advises operate and in which NewERA will have expertise. I note that the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Given that the financial reports of the bodies concerned are laid before the Oireachtas and are subject to freedom of information, this is adequately dealt with in legislation.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Sometimes the information in such a report might damage the asset on which it is reporting if it comes into the public domain. While the annual accounts are published, there might be issues which will inform the company or entity but it would not be in the public interest to disclose.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Section 21 requires NewERA to prepare a report at least annually for the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and other relevant Ministers on the performance of each designated body. This is separate from its report on its NewERA activities, which the agency will present as part of its annual report under section 13 of the 1990 Act. The amendment proposed would require the agency to...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Notwithstanding the existing reporting provisions in section 13 of the 1990 Act, the Minister for Finance is considering including a provision on Report Stage, which would be before the committee, requiring the agency to provide a breakdown of ISIF investments in its annual report. A number of members have views on this and we are trying to take them on board.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Although we are not addressing them in the legislation before the committee tonight, they will be addressed in a particular way on Report Stage.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Commercially sensitive information would not be published. The only example I can give is from Irish Water when the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan, published a direction that he had given to the Commission for Energy Regulation on certain charges. That was transparent and open. I take the Deputy’s point on directions being published...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: It concerns the manner in which it will be published, not the form.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: It concerns how it is published on a website, in a newspaper or issued in a press release. It would not be appropriate to publish the corporate strategy and investment plans of commercial semi-State companies. It concerns the principle rather than the commercially sensitive parts.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: One would presume there would be no intention to publish the portion that was commercially sensitive.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: The section reads, “as soon as is reasonably practicable after giving a direction”. It would be a judgment call on that portion of it. All directions are subject to freedom of information legislation. Accordingly, they would be available in that context also. Obviously, the portions that would be commercially sensitive would be redacted.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Fergus O'Dowd: Yes, the Minister must publish it in full.

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