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Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Fiscal Assessment Report: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Could Professor McMahon say that again?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: How many?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Was that through PPPs?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Was that done through the PPP bundle?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I thank our witnesses for a very interesting discussion. My starting point is to be deeply sceptical of PPPs. The comparison I would like to see, although I do not think it is on the agenda, but the witnesses can tell me if there has been any discussion about it, is, as well as comparing direct procurement, which, as the witnesses pointed out earlier, is paying a contractor to do something...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Of a State construction company?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: It is a long time, if ever, since local authorities built houses.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I am for that. Do not get me wrong.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: What I am saying is it is a long time since we had it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: That is an interesting perspective and your point about scale is well made. I want us to go in this direction, but we would require scale, which the local authorities do not have.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Absolutely. Mr. Dorgan mentioned comparisons being made between direct procurement and a PPP. There is only a limited amount of construction capacity out there. That means even if we get some foreign company to build schools or houses, it will still be relying on the labour capacity we have in the country, by and large. Is that not true?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I take that point. I am just wondering whether, to Mr. Dorgan's knowledge, there has been any examination of what might it look like if the State did it directly and employed architects, engineers, construction workers, tradespeople, and so on and did so at scale. How might that compare with either the direct procurement model or a PPP model? Is that even being looked at or considered? Is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: It has not looked at it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: That is okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: With due respect to the Leas-Chathaoirleach, I believe we should look at it because there are swings and roundabouts. I realise that is probably not Mr. Dorgan's decision. He has answered the question to say it is not really being looked at it. There are swings and roundabouts. While there are overhead costs, look at the time it takes to get procurement done. It is a flipping nightmare....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: With respect, I did not ask the Leas-Chathaoirleach. I am asking the Department.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I am asking the witnesses. It is my time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships: Discussion (19 Jun 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: The IGEES report on this is not an economic theory; it is a Government document.

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