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Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: The margin is 17%. If any Deputy can tell me of a market in the world where it costs €600 million in order to get €1 billion of product to the patient, I would be very surprised. It is not credible that getting our drugs, which cost €1 billion on the community side, to our patients should cost €600 million. Some €100 million will be removed from the €600 million. That will...

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: The Deputy asked many questions, including who will be the losers. I first wish to identify the winners because that is important. The winners will be patients, who will receive the medicine cheaper, and taxpayers. The other winners will be pharmacists heavily dependent on medical card patients and pharmacists located in areas where the volume of business is lower. I cannot identify...

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: The IPU to its credit, and Deputy James Reilly mentioned this earlier, has called for no disruption in services. I welcome that. Pharmacists take their ethical duties seriously. Unlike in the case of methadone, where one is not required to give three months notice to break a contract, under the contract the State has with pharmacists a three month notice period is required. There will be...

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: We want to pay a flat fee. The representatives of the IPU in their meeting with me two weeks ago said that the €5 flat fee, and the HSE has said not less than €5, is not sufficient and that it was not devised, in their view, through an independent process. It was to address that issue that I decided to establish the group chaired by Mr. Sean Dorgan to examine it in the context of these...

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: I am a strong fan of competition. I am old enough to remember when there was no competition in certain markets. Protectionism protects nobody and certainly not consumers. Society does better when there is fair competition. Furthermore, these markets are regulated. There are regulatory bodies and the recent legislation provides, for the first time, for the regulation of the corporate...

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: We are not going to reduce the number of pharmacists.

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: The Deputies have asked many questions. Deputy Connaughton asked how this differs from the situation with the consultants. First, the consultants are our own employees. Therefore, competition law does not interface when an employer negotiates with an employee.

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: That is the reality. An employer can negotiate with his or her own employees. The issue under competition law ——

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: Of course I do. I made the point earlier that we want to negotiate a new contract with the IPU, with pharmacists, but the pricing of that contract ——

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: The pricing of that contract ——

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: We must negotiate the contract. Hopefully ——

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: Hopefully we will reach agreement on a new contract and then we are required, under competition law, to have that independently priced. Unless we get agreement on the new contract, there is no point in establishing a pricing mechanism.

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: The people who will be the chief beneficiaries from an increased dispensing fee — and what is on offer at the moment is a 70% increase for the GMS — are those pharmacies that are very heavily dependent on GMS and those pharmacies in rural communities ——

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: —— that have very low volumes of turnover. That is a fact. They will ——

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: Deputy Mulcahy asked if I have been impressed with the presentations made. I have, for many years, felt very uneasy when young pharmacists approached me to tell me that because they could not get into pharmacy school in Ireland and had to go abroad to qualify, they could not open a pharmacy here. I spent many years campaigning to change that situation. That has changed now.

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: I am usually accused in this House of being too pro-enterprise. These are entrepreneurs and business people. They have established businesses and have entered into their arrangements ——

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: My concern, as Minister for Health and Children, is the contract that the HSE has with pharmacists for the professional service they provide. That contract, paid by way of dispensing fees in 2007, cost €367 million and no money is being taken off that. On the contrary, we are offering a 70% increase for GMS dispensing. Pharmacists have varying discount arrangements with wholesalers. I...

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: The HSE is not a party to that either. The HSE set out in good faith with the Department to negotiate with the manufacturers, the producers of medicine and to then negotiate with wholesalers, even though we do not have a contract with them. Clearly, we are concerned about the cost of delivering the product. There is nowhere in the world where it costs €600 million to get medicine to...

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: Nobody could justify, and the Brennan commission was very critical of the 50% mark up ——

Pharmaceutical Pricing: Statements (28 Feb 2008)

Mary Harney: Nobody could justify that it costs €600 million to provide €1 billion worth of medicines to patients.

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