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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: It's wasn't you. Okay. But at that point in the conversation, from your recollection, we were still talking about only a guarantee of the €10 billion that AIB and BOI would provide?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: And can you recall any draft document or piece of paper in the possession of Mr. Goggin, with a possible draft of a guarantee, or a list of institutions that a guarantee might cover, in the meeting?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: Do you recall AIB having any such document or piece of paper?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: Okay. And did you know that a guarantee of your institution might be on the cards, prior to your arrival at Government Buildings that night?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: Okay. Did you know that a system-wide guarantee might be on the cards?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: Okay. Well, if we could just go to page 20 of the same document. There was a meeting earlier that day in the bank at which Mr. Goggin informed a small committee, of which Mr. Boucher was a member, about the possibility of a Government guarantee being provided for all borrowings by Irish institutions. So Mr. Goggin, according to these minutes, would appear to have been aware that it was a...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: The minute is incorrect in its entirety, or-----?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: Okay. But the knowledge as to the possibility of a Government guarantee being provided for all borrowings by Irish institutions, that ... was that discussed in that meeting? I know you weren't present, but-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: But Mr. Goggin never said anything to you along those lines?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: Okay. Thank you. When you were in Government Buildings that night did you know the bank's borrowings at this point in time, customer deposits, interbank borrowings or debt securities issued, did you have an idea of the exposures?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: Yes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: You did. And Mr. Goggin?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: And just to clarify then, when did you become aware of this systemic guarantee? It was a second meeting, or a-----?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: And the guarantee for all the six institutions, as it happened?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: Okay. My last question, in relation to this area, Mr. Burrows, if you could turn to page 5 of that same document, BOI - C3b, and it's board minutes from 3 October 2008, and it's where the events of that night are recounted to the board.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: And it says, "When the decision was conveyed that AIB and BoI were prepared to provide €10bn collectively, the mood of the meeting lifted considerably and the Government side began to focus on the draft Press Release to announce the blanket guarantee with immediate effect." By "blanket" in that instance, you understand a guarantee of the six institutions?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: Because in the following paragraph it says, "In the event, market developments triggered the Guarantee earlier than expected. In these circumstances, the political judgement was that it had to apply to all banks." So, is there a change there, between what was agreed, or what you understand to be agreed when you said you could provide the €10 billion, and a blanket guarantee? Could...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: But, the following paragraph then, "In the event, market developments triggered the guarantee earlier than expected. In these circumstances [which would seem to indicate different circumstances] the political judgement was that it had to apply to all banks." There seems to be an inference there that there was a change in the scope of the guarantee.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: Okay and just finally then, can you recall any conversation around the inclusion of subordinated liabilities as part of the guarantee?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (14 May 2015)

Eoghan Murphy: Yes.

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