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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: The Bill provides for the restoration of that portion of the higher income in full-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: -----up to a benchmark of €110,000 in two phases in April 2017 and January 2018-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: -----and in excess of €110,000 in three tranches in April 2017, April 2018 and April 2019. The higher portion of the incomes of high earners is being restored in full. That is what this legislation provides for. Contrast this with earnings below the €65,000 per annum, which are being only partially restored. In this regard, the Minister has set out the figures of...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: Yes.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: I am misinterpreting nothing. I am setting out what the legislation provides for. It would have been a better day out had the Minister provided for the full and orderly unwinding and restoration of all pay cuts to earnings below the €65,000 benchmark. That would have been a more orderly and fair way of going about this. In terms of the higher earnings, there is, as I have stated...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: The Minister said that the people who took the biggest hit were those on the highest pay, which is undoubtedly true in terms of the third pay cut. However, the corollary of that argument is that those on the higher pay will enjoy the largest restoration. Leaving aside the issues in respect of-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: It is not my phone. The corollary of that argument is that those who will benefit from the highest level of restoration are those on the highest incomes. The Minister claims he seeks to achieve an orderly, equitable and fair unwinding of the financial emergency measures in the public interest legislation. The fair thing to do would be to start with workers with an income below the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: The Minister has again raised the issue of medics. The only way we will get medics, be they consultants, doctors or nurses, to enter and stay the course in the health system is by having a properly functioning health system.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: I can fully understand and get why professionals flee a system that is chaotic, under-resourced and totally pressurised.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: In benchmarking across the water in the National Health Service one can see that it is consultants do not earn the salaries available within the Irish health system, yet they stay the course.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: I am not arguing that the NHS is perfect, but there is more to it than simply pay rates in professionals staying or leaving.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: The point I am making about this legislation which purports to unwind the financial emergency measures in the public interest legislation is that it should be done in a way that is fair and equitable. The Minister must stick to his word that the priority and focus are those on lower incomes and wages of less than €65,000. That was the commitment given by him.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: That was the Minister's commitment

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: The Minister gave a commitment which was his line of argument in advance of publication of this legislation. For the purposes of clarity, can he point me to the provision where officeholders, Ministers of the Government and Members of the Oireachtas are excluded from the reduction in public service pensions, etc? Where is it?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: My amendments argue that the provision should be included in the legislation. With all due respect to the Minister, how much longer has the Administration to run? Perhaps it has two months to run.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: Perhaps two months or three months.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: I will presume no such thing. What I know is that the Minister has not provided, in line with the announcement he made, for the exclusion of Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas and, more particularly, members of the Government, from the restoration outlined in the legislation. I imagine, given his declaration, that he will be happy to support amendments Nos. 10 and 16 in my name.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: I wish to press the amendment.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: I move amendment No. 6:In page 6, between lines 29 and 30, to insert the following:“(5) Notwithstanding the generality of the foregoing, nothing in this section shall provide for increases in the salaries of members of the Houses of the Oireachtas or Ministers of the Government.”.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: I move amendment No. 7:In page 6, between lines 29 and 30, to insert the following:“(5) Notwithstanding the generality of the foregoing, nothing in this section shall provide for increases in the salaries of public servants in receipt of salaries in excess of €100,000 before the coming into effect of this section.”.

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