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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: I wish to raise a point on that specific question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: What is the figure?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: Is that between 2014 and 2017?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: Let us deal with the facts.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: I wish to qualify one point. Is it correct that the level of claim awards in the courts went from €141 million to €85 million in that period? Is that the correct figure?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: That is a reduction of 40% in court claims. That is the reduction in awards.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: It is a feature that is being used. It is clearly indicative of the actual awards. The basis of the Insurance Ireland premise is that the awards are coming down. I wish to add to what Deputy Doherty has said. It is not only that the figure come down 22% overall. For court awards, aside from the Personal Injuries Assessment Board, Mr. Hassett has said that in many cases claimants are...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: A 40% reduction in court awards over that period is significant. That is coupled with a 22% reduction in the number of claims. I will go back to Deputy Doherty presently. Based on empirical work, we have to question the basis of the assertions being made. The figures were presented to Insurance Ireland. It is a clear indication that premiums should be coming down significantly.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: I have a few quick questions for Mr. Hassett and Mr. Horan in order to have full clarification. Is it correct that court awards in the motor industry fell from €141 million to €85 million between 2014 and 2017?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: That is a reduction of 40%. What was the average court award? I am assuming the figure includes the District Court, Circuit Court and High Court. Am I correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: What about all courts? That figure was for one specific court.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: Which is a judgment call by the insurance company.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: By what?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: If the cost of personal injuries claims came down, would there be a direct correlation with the reduction in the cost of insurance premiums? If personal injuries claims costs reduce by 20%, would we see a 20% reduction in insurance premiums?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: Does Insurance Ireland own a database on claims?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: I am aware of that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: On the specific issue, do the member insurance companies have access to the aggregate claims data Insurance Ireland compiles?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: How do the delegates view legal fees in the context of insurance premiums? This has not been mentioned to date.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: I do not buy that analysis. If one is providing reserves based on a combination of actual awards plus expected awards, that is a finite and absolute figure and that figure is then built into a provision within the accounts of the individual insurance companies which dictates the overall level of the premiums they will charge. If the overall number of claims is down by 55,000 and the overall...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Kieran O'Donnell: The point I am making is that, for the incurred claims, the element that is provided for expected claims is a judgment call. One could make the case that an insurance company is being very prudent in that it errs on the side of caution and it ups the amount it provides. The trend is that the number of claims overall has gone down by 20% and court awards have gone down dramatically - by 40%...

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