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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: When the Comptroller and Auditor General was before us on previously he said that he would have expected that his office would have been informed about the issues from 2008 on.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: The Commissioner has said that she was notified in July 2015. There was a letter from Mr. Ken Ruane on 24 July, there was a meeting on 27 July and we have just been told there was another letter or report on 28 July. What is the status of this letter?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: The Comptroller and Auditor General has explained why he cannot give an opinion on that, but he has stated previously that he felt that he should have been told in 2008, 2010, etc. The Commissioner was well aware, before this letter was sent, of issues relating to the Garda College. Mr. Barrett's report, which was then followed up by Mr. Ruane's legal letter, which we will not see, and then...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: I am not asking about the precise details but rather about the fact that there was a process.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: The letter of 31 July was a missed opportunity to do that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: We know what information-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: I am chairing the meeting.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: The Comptroller and Auditor General was not informed in 2008, 2010 or later. Ms O'Sullivan became Accounting Officer when she became Commissioner. I presume that when she was acting Commissioner she took on that role as well. The report from Mr. Barrett went in and there was a meeting on 27 July. The latter is disputed as being the first meeting. Assistant Commissioner Ó...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Yes, this is the Deputy's final contribution.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: I am chairing the meeting. The Deputy should allow the Commissioner to conclude.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: We have heard directly from the Comptroller and Auditor General that he feels he should have been notified long before this. He also told us that, given the information provided to her in July, he would have expected the Commissioner, who was then Accounting Officer and aware of the issues, to notify him in this letter. Ms O'Sullivan did not do so and that is a huge contradiction for us, as...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: We are going to have to return to the role of the Accounting Officer. If a document emerges in which allegations or declarations of issues that pertain to the documentation that was brought before the witness on 27 July are made, the role of the Accounting Officer of any organisation is very clear -there is a duty to inform the Comptroller and Auditor General.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Mr. Barrett compiled a report. On the basis of that report, which was discussed internally among the management team, the Commissioner received a letter from Mr. Ruane in respect of which she is claiming privilege. That is the report that we are referring to from Mr. Barrett. Everything else fell out of that. As a consequence, is the witness saying that she was not privy to the high-level...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Very quickly.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: The Deputy should ask questions through the Chair.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: The point the witness is making is that what was reported to her on 27 and 28 July did not justify a report to the Comptroller and Auditor General. That is the executive summary of what happened. What is alarming is that Mr. Barrett's report, which went through Mr. Dunne and which was the basis for Mr. Ruane letter, was not brought to the witness's attention.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: Was the witness aware of the details of Mr. Barrett's report on 27 and 28 July?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: I did not ask that question. Was the witness aware of the details of the report?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Alan Kelly: This is incredible stuff. I am sorry.

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