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Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Does that extension mean that some people will be referred for a fourth time?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: The point here is that every time someone is referred, there is a cost or a payment to the companies.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: I ask Mr. McKeon to give us a note on that as well, with the updated figures. The Department gave us a breakdown of what was paid to the two organisations.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: I ask Mr. McKeon to send the precise figures on to us. I am seeking a breakdown for the two companies with the most up-to-date figures for the numbers of people that have gone through. In terms of the referrals, I seek a breakdown of the numbers of people who went through twice or three times. I ask him to set out again how it is unlikely that somebody would be referred for a fourth time.

Written Answers — Department of Health: Medical Card Drugs Availability (7 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: 156. To ask the Minister for Health if his attention has been drawn to the case of a person (details supplied); and if he will make a statement on the matter. [45917/19]

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: The State needs to conduct more research, not only on carbon taxes. We are doing ourselves a disservice by focusing too much on carbon taxes and carbon tax increases. There should be more of a focus on how we can enable people to make a transition. Deputy Connolly spoke about this aspect. Most people want to see a transition as they want to be able to make a change. However, it may not...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: I thank the witnesses.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Will they stop heating their homes?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: The ESRI cannot seriously say it will decrease by 3.9%. Emissions went up last year and we know agriculture is one of the big polluters. The ESRI cannot seriously be saying that a carbon tax increase of €30 would reduce emissions by 3.9%. What is the carbon tax at the moment?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: The ESRI officials are suggesting that an increase from €20 to €30 would mean a 3.9% decrease.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: I know what the difference is. I am saying that I cannot imagine how it tallies given where we are at the moment. We already have significant carbon taxes. I cannot image how increasing the charge from €20 per tonne to €30 per tonne would result in a 3.9% emissions reduction. The ESRI has not really convinced me that people will make the changes, other than perhaps putting...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: The average family cannot afford an electric car. If such a family lives in rural Ireland where there is no public transport, they have to use the car. Do they stop bringing their children to school?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: We are talking about changing behaviour. The ESRI officials have said it will reduce carbon. It is not about their income. It is about reducing the carbon footprint and emissions. What if a family cannot afford an electric car? The ESRI is making the assumption that there will be a reduction of 3.9%. I am trying to understand what that assumption is based on. What are they going to do?...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: What are they going to do? The ESRI officials are not telling me what an individual is going to do, apart from the possibility that people might turn off electricity. They may or may not do so. That is a real assumption because they may be unable to do so. There are several ways in which people can reduce emissions. People can change their car - that is one option. They can use public...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Where does it come from?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: We are talking about carbon taxes. I asked about this earlier. I agree there are alternatives and other things we can do. I am asking specifically about carbon taxes. If we are going to reach a 3.9% reduction, does the model envisage that the majority of the changes would come from individual behaviour?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Exactly. It does not include farming or business.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Yet, we know from the last figures we saw that agricultural emissions went up. Is that not correct? I have high regard for the ESRI as an organisation but I am really struggling to believe that an increase of €10 would see a fall of 3.9%. I would have to see more evidence. I am not convinced by it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: That may be the case if people have alternatives. For example, I supported the sugar tax. That is a good example of where there is an alternative. I can order a Coke Zero instead of a Coke, and that changes my behaviour. The plastic bag levy is another example of taxes and levies that work. They can work where people have an easy alternative they can use. What about carbon tax increases...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: I still do not find the figures credible. Having said that, they are the figures we have. It is our job to probe and understand them. I am not convinced by the answers I have gotten. I want to move to the CSO. We are obliged to study the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General. Page 128 states that emissions from the European Union emissions trading system sectors do not count...

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