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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: Otherwise, the two organisations would have to remain for the whole day, and we are not going to do that.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: If the Deputy drops-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: If the Deputy drops eight years off, it she will be there.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
(13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: I thank the witnesses. I will do a quick-fire round here and will jump from issue to issue because the Chairman is cracking the whip. On the issue of the Dräger machines, I understand that every machine has to be reassessed and recalibrated after six months. Does that always happen?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
(13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: Are there any machines that do not end up going back after six months?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
(13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: I understand that. These are really quick-fire questions because I have many things to get through. Does it ever happen that even after Mr. Finn's office sends out these notes, some areas do not recalibrate their machines?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
(13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: If a machine has be recalibrated after six months, and if Mr. Finn's office sends out notes to this effect, what guarantees do we have that every machine in every individual case was in fact recalibrated? What guarantee do we have that the accuracy of an individual breath test is not jeopardised, given that the machine in question may not have been recalibrated? Does the witness get that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
(13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: It keeps a date and knows when six months have passed?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
(13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: Can we be absolutely certain from An Garda Síochána that every single device used in every single case in this country in the last few years had been recalibrated after six months?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
(13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: The fact that Mr Finn cannot tell us makes me very nervous. Does this not jeopardise the prosecution of a whole range of cases? As we sit here at the Committee of Public Accounts, we cannot guarantee that every device used to find out if people are over the alcohol limit has been calibrated.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
(13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: I know that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
(13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: Fair enough. What happens, however, if somebody is over the limit and an uncalibrated machine reports that he or she is under the limit? An Garda Síochána will not proceed to the next stage.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
(13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: I was intrigued when I read the documentation about this during the week. An Garda Síochána cannot guarantee that these machines are being calibrated. I presume that as part of this process the organisation will ensure that this uncertainty will all be cleared up-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
(13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: I expect that this will be absolutely mandatory. How can we be certain, however, that the whole process has not been tampered with? How can we be sure that it is absolute and perfect? We have no way of guaranteeing that every station and every division has recalibrated these machines as is necessary and specified after six months. Do the witnesses see what I am getting at? It is just a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
(13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
(13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: Fine. I am delighted to hear it. I am, however, worried about the present and about some of the cases before us. My second question concerns penalty points. This is a technical question. Let us consider the ongoing review. Let us imagine that Mr. McCarthy here, for example, were to hypothetically be caught speeding and get a fixed notice. I am taking him as an example here because he...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
(13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: I know. That office presumably sends out a second notice pointing out the error. If Mr. McCarthy were not to respond, I presume that the matter would then go to court.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
(13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: Given what we all now know about penalty points, can Mr. Finn give an absolute 100% guarantee that anybody who ever made a genuine error like this one was definitely issued this second letter? I know of a number of people concerned who claim that they did not get such a letter. I would like to know that this is being reviewed as part of the current process, that such cases do not go...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
(13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: Okay. Mr. Finn is 100% certain then that every single case-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
(13 Jul 2017)

Alan Kelly: How do we know that every case went to Thurles?

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