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Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Risks to Health, Including Physical Health, of Pregnant Women: Professor Sabaratnam Arulkumaran, Dr. Peter Boylan and Dr. Meabh Ní Bhuinneáin (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Risks to Health, Including Physical Health, of Pregnant Women: Professor Sabaratnam Arulkumaran, Dr. Peter Boylan and Dr. Meabh Ní Bhuinneáin (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: I also noted that at a previous all-party Oireachtas committee hearing on abortion in 2009, the then chairman of the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, Professor John Bonnar, submitted a position paper on abortion only after consulting with all members of the institute. I note Dr. Boylan stated today in his paper that he has also canvassed institute members' opinions. How many...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Risks to Health, Including Physical Health, of Pregnant Women: Professor Sabaratnam Arulkumaran, Dr. Peter Boylan and Dr. Meabh Ní Bhuinneáin (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: Could Mr. Boylan enlighten us as to what kind of feedback he got, percentage-wise, from members?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Risks to Health, Including Physical Health, of Pregnant Women: Professor Sabaratnam Arulkumaran, Dr. Peter Boylan and Dr. Meabh Ní Bhuinneáin (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: That was most of it. Did Dr. Boylan get any alternative views?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Risks to Health, Including Physical Health, of Pregnant Women: Professor Sabaratnam Arulkumaran, Dr. Peter Boylan and Dr. Meabh Ní Bhuinneáin (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: But Dr. Boylan did not engage other than giving a view. What way did he advertise or contact them? How were they notified?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Risks to Health, Including Physical Health, of Pregnant Women: Professor Sabaratnam Arulkumaran, Dr. Peter Boylan and Dr. Meabh Ní Bhuinneáin (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: That went to all of Dr. Boylan's colleagues. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Risks to Health, Including Physical Health, of Pregnant Women: Professor Sabaratnam Arulkumaran, Dr. Peter Boylan and Dr. Meabh Ní Bhuinneáin (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: During an abortion procedure, the abortionist often uses ultrasound to help guide the instruments to grasp at its member, the baby. Does Dr. Boylan think that ethically this must be a difficult procedure for an obstetrician to perform? According to statements from the British Department of Health in 2011, the number of doctors unwilling to perform abortions is increasing. Why does Dr....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Risks to Health, Including Physical Health, of Pregnant Women: Professor Sabaratnam Arulkumaran, Dr. Peter Boylan and Dr. Meabh Ní Bhuinneáin (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: Surely in the limited cases that it does happen, it is off-putting. Apart from the training issue – I understand that – the evidence is that the numbers of doctors who are unwilling to perform abortions is increasing.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Risks to Health, Including Physical Health, of Pregnant Women: Professor Sabaratnam Arulkumaran, Dr. Peter Boylan and Dr. Meabh Ní Bhuinneáin (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: Does Professor Arulkumaran think it is all down to cost? Who vets those private agencies?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Risks to Health, Including Physical Health, of Pregnant Women: Professor Sabaratnam Arulkumaran, Dr. Peter Boylan and Dr. Meabh Ní Bhuinneáin (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: I am aware of that. We are speaking about abortion today. It is all down to cost, so.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Risks to Health, Including Physical Health, of Pregnant Women: Professor Sabaratnam Arulkumaran, Dr. Peter Boylan and Dr. Meabh Ní Bhuinneáin (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: Surely we should examine that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Options for Constitutional Change (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: I second that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Options for Constitutional Change (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: I second Senator Mullen's proposal. What are we hiding here? Why have we been in private session for the last hour?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Options for Constitutional Change (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: The Chairman has said that we cannot speak on this matter now. Senator Mullen and I did not take part in the discussion over the past hour because it was farcical in the extreme. This now is an even bigger farce. He wants to propose an amendment which I am seconding. We want a discussion on this in public, not behind closed doors.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Options for Constitutional Change (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: We want to propose an amendment to the proposal.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Options for Constitutional Change (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: And I am seconding it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Options for Constitutional Change (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: Yes, I suggested it. Why did we not?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Options for Constitutional Change (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: I did, I thank the Chair. I will not hog it at all. I am just saying that I do not agree either that we should move in this direction this evening. I discussed it with the clerk to the committee. I am not trying to interfere with the clerk to the committee's business. I sought clarification during the break. It was not my understanding that we were going to decide something in private...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Options for Constitutional Change (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: If we come to the impasse - sorry, Chair, I am nearly finished - here-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution: Options for Constitutional Change (18 Oct 2017)

Mattie McGrath: I am respecting the Chair.

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