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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: One of the intentions of the Bill is to strengthen the independence of GSOC and that is being strongly opposed by An Garda Síochána. The day the Commissioner was before the committee, he seemed to indicate that the Garda is not happy with that. Does Ms McPhillips have any comment in that regard? Is that the situation at the moment? Is there a big pushback against the legislation?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: I ask specifically about pushback against the legislation from An Garda Síochána.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: I wish to ask about restorative justice. As I understand it, there is a community-based project in Dublin and one in Tipperary, but it does not seem to be widespread throughout the State. I saw some information in recent days to the effect that there was a spend of €532,000 on restorative justice in 2020. That would seem to be a very small portion of funding.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: It seems to be taking a long time. As I recall, Judge Mary Martin promoted this approach a decade ago. It is acknowledged that it is a successful approach to reparation, which is very important for victims, but also in moving people away from reoffending. Why can the process not be accelerated? Ms McCaffrey has a problem with prison space and people have to be doubled up in cells that are...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: I am sorry for interrupting Ms McPhillips, but the model is working in Tipperary and in other countries. It is frustrating. People are being sent to prison and while I am not advocating locking people up and throwing away the key, the system does not allow for reparation for victims. I recall one case where an individual had robbed four or five different households and they got a number of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: It is proven.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: Is it bogged down in bureaucracy?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: I would be grateful if Ms McPhillips would because it is something we could-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: Before we finish, I would like to ask about the budget for the domestic violence refuges. There are nine counties, including Laois and Offaly, that do not have even a single bed, despite all of the attendant difficulties which public representatives and others come across. What is the current situation with the budget? Am I correct to say there are only 140 beds in the State? That is very low.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: Has it fully transferred over?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: It is coming.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: Is there any indication of what kind of budget there is for providing new beds?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: I understand the Istanbul Convention recommended that for a State with 4.9 million people there should be 490 beds. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: It is a huge problem in the nine counties, and Laois and Offaly are the counties I am most familiar with. When victims of domestic violence leave, often taking children with them, they are sent 60 or 70 miles away across two or three counties to a refuge. Their children are taken away from schools, from social workers and, very importantly, from family support, the GP and all other...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: I ask the Department to come back to us with a note on the plan for rolling out domestic violence refuges in those nine counties. Offaly has a different plan, by the way, although I do not want to go into it in detail. Offaly has a plan that involves three locations and it is trying to operate a different system for domestic violence. That is the plan going forward and it has been shared...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: The domestic violence services are there but with all the advice, information and supports they give, they are absolutely stretched to the limit. They got some extra money recently, which is welcome, but we are overdrawn on people's goodwill.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: That is all I would say to Ms McPhillips. We need to provide those spaces. I would say the same to Ms McPhillips with restorative justice. Do not let it all get bogged down in bureaucracy in the Department. I first raised this issue in 1999. It is going on too long. Other people have raised it as well. We need to get on and do it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: I know that. The Department is getting it though.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Brian Stanley: I would be grateful if Ms McPhillips could give us some projections on progress on it.

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