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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: I thank the Chair and the committee for the invitation and am delighted to take up the opportunity. Gender equality is a key priority for this Government and if we are to make meaningful advances in gender equality, it will require a broad and inclusive approach. The catalyst for inviting me today is of course the admirable work carried out by the Citizens' Assembly on Gender Equality and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: There is no intention to bring in the requirement for proof. I said this in the Dáil yesterday-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: The Government will bring forward Committee Stage amendments to the work-life balance Bill. It will provide for five days' domestic violence leave. It is modelled on existingforce majeure provisions in the Parental Leave Act 1998. It is not intended that a victim would be required to provide proof of domestic violence while availing-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: I am the Taoiseach of the Government. I am telling the Deputy that is it not the intention to do that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: The Government is very clear on this. I have been very clear in the Oireachtas on this. I was surprised at the IBEC position.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: I came here in good faith, not to get into a sort of partisan position. We want to arrive at conclusions that are in the best interests of women, particularly in the application of this. It is not the intention to require proof. As I said to the Deputy's colleague yesterday in the Dáil, when a woman or man comes forward to an employer in respect of seeking domestic violence leave, it...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: Nor do I think it would be appropriate.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: No. It is open to any employer to go beyond the five days. It was the Minister, Deputy Harris, I think, who took the initiative in respect of the third level sector regarding the ten-day leave. These matters are kept under review. The Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth looked internationally at how this has worked out in different jurisdictions. The...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: First, this is a statutory minimum. We are providing in law for a statutory minimum domestic violence leave of five days. There is a two-year review in the legislation. The Minister, Deputy Harris, has gone ahead already in terms of third level and said ten days. It is open to employers to go beyond the statutory minimum. As I say, when this goes into the Oireachtas, the Minister will...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: My understanding was that the committee must do a full report on the constitutional position and the Government would obviously await the fuller consideration by this committee. I put this out there, as I spoke to the Chair beforehand. My experience of the eighth amendment is that the Oireachtas committee looked at that specific recommendation from a citizens' assembly, amended it to a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: I would make two points. On the constitutional point, I accept the general view that it cannot be simple deletion and that part of the amendment should involve care. The devil is in the detail and the balance between the constitutional, the Executive and the Parliament and what functions fall to Parliament and to the Executive to develop and implement. I recall being involved in the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: People say that politics is terrible and that it takes up an inordinate amount of time. The pressure of social media is a problem as regards the pressure people feel under now. For the bulk of my political career, we did not have that pressure. It is a real pressure on some people and they take it to heart. They are a wider set of issues that we need to look at. Apologies if I went on a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: First, I would generally support Deputy Hourigan's view in terms of gender equality budgeting. We have been developing the well-being framework which has been an intense piece of work and I take the Deputy's point about making it legible. The late Bobby Kennedy spoke much more eloquently about well-being than we are at the moment, and that is no offence to how we are putting all of the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: I would agree. In some areas, such as social protection, we know now what measures will help with combating poverty. People can argue whether we do that rightly or wrongly or to the extent that we should but we have a fair idea of what types of payments can deal with consistent poverty or the prevention or avoidance of consistent poverty. I will go back to the Ministers to see if we can...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: That is fair enough. I would agree with that and I will work with the Deputy on the mechanisms by which we can do that. There is change happening in the family court system and even with the new family court building. I am determined to get those changes through. The Deputy is correct about removing the pressure from the individual. It should be more systemic. When decisions are made in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: At the core of what the Deputy is saying is, to a certain extent, our multi-seat proportional representation system. We bring it upon ourselves. We are a small island in some respects. Our politics is very local. The Deputy will know that if I ever it suggested a Friday legislative sitting, even when I was in opposition, I would get glares from the entire Front Bench.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: To me, it is a more logical way of working. We should have a legislative day but the politics of it do not allow for that because people want the argy-bargy every day. Deputy Tóibín is looking at me. People want Leaders' Questions and the Order of Business. In a previous Government, back when I was a backbench Deputy in the late 1990s, we did a legislative day on a Friday. It...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: At a governmental level, we were exclusively focused on policy. As we return now, that is being dragged left, right and centre. It is full on again. Some of us love that engagement with people and so on. I like that kind of politics. I know what I signed up for, so to speak, so I do not complain about it. That said, it is very challenging and frightens people away from coming into...

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