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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: Broadly speaking, there will be three categories of threshold. At present every registered charity has to submit an online annual report form. When its income or expenditure goes over €10,000, there is a higher requirement. We propose to raise that threshold to €25,000 because research has shown that the organisations under the €25,000 income line are largely...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: We estimate that the middle income category of €25,000 to €250,000 includes 2,500 charities. I take Deputy Conway-Walsh's point about the threshold. As for her broader point about volunteers, I have responsibility for volunteering policy as well and I think that when people think of volunteering, many of them think of the front line and visible volunteers. I am always at...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: In accordance with the categorisation of reporting we have, I would guess that most of the organisations will hit the top one, but they will be required to submit fairly detailed accounts to the Charities Regulator annually now. That is good for oversight and transparency. It had not been there before.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: No. By the nature of their roles, they have to be separate and independent entities. To clarify, the secretariat is supplied by the Department but they are separate entities.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: I will work backwards on that because the Bill provides that an individual who is doing this now would be committing an offence. Previously, groups of individuals that were not organisations were going around purporting to be organisations. The Bill proposes that if in an individual is discovered doing so, he or she is committing an offence. That will improve things. It will not solve the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: I believe it relates to section 93.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: The issue we have with that is that An Garda Síochána and the Department of Justice have been consistent in their response that they do not have the capacity to enforce the amendments. In response, the Charities Regulator has created guidelines for charitable organisations and fundraising from the public to address issues around fundraising for charities. We are told consistently...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: Is the Chairman referring to where a charity subcontracts a private operator to do this? I am just trying to pin it down a bit first.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: I am trying to tease this out a bit in my head. You have got a private operation that may be potentially misleading a private citizen about what they are selling to them.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: My concern always though is what is happening with the public money. The charity is buying advertising, which it is entitled to do-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: I am sorry.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: As a basic principle, what we are trying to do here is ensure charities are more transparent and accountable in how they use their money. Let us see where we can take that principle with respect to the issue the Chairman is describing. We can see if furthering that principle and getting it ingrained a bit more, either legislatively or in guidelines, is something that will help a situation...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: I can see how the name, label or logo of a charity on any product would make people more amenable to handing their money over on it. If there is not 100% truth and honesty about what is going on there, then that is something we are interested in and the regulator would be interested in. Whether it is guidance, legislation or policy I am not sure but let us look at that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: To add, there was some concern around the terminology in the general scheme around a "significant event". We have a little bit of work to do to put a bit of focus on that. We will be looking at the legislation in Scotland as well and how it elaborates on that term a little more as well. I am aware there are some who are a little concerned about the use of that phrase but we have a bit to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: Yes, we will take on board. I do not think there will be huge desire to go trawling back through thousands of charities' actions in the past but there is a gap between what comes to the attention of the regulator and what does not. There are significant events that do not come to the regulator's attention that we would like to. It is not every little thing that happens but serious events....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: It strikes me that is a different area of law. That would be my first reaction, in that this is putting down a company's good name.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: On the malicious intent question, it depends. What can be construed as malicious intent can sometimes be a real concern as well. If there is a real concern it can be reported to the regulator. I am a bit cautious about that and what might really be behind it. It could be malicious intent but it could also be a real concern. It is important that if there are real concerns they are...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: As the regulator is independent I am always careful about getting involved with applications for charitable status. I need to keep a bit of distance in that regard. The regulator has some discretion to waive certain requirements in exceptional circumstances. It is the regulator's decision as to when and how some requirements might be waived. This is as much as I would say on it for now....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: General Scheme of the Charities (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Joe O'Brien: My understanding is that one cannot do that. I will let my officials correct me, but unless one has the full status then one cannot do that.

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