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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: I would be particularly interested to know what Revenue sought and was not granted. What was the €3.29 million of additional support it needed that it was not able to get last year? I note as well that the dividend withholding tax has not been put on a real-time platform. Is it planned that that will take place in 2021?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: I ask the Minister of State to give the committee more information on that €21.29 million request, if possible. What were the component parts of that and what part of it was granted or not in last year's Estimates?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister mentioned that Revenue staff continue to support the delivery of public services through contact tracing and income supports. Can he tell me how many staff in Revenue are deployed to each section of work? How many are involved in contact tracing and how many are involved in applications for income support payments?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: Then there is a second group of staff who are involved in processing payments for the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection. Are those 30 staff across both contact tracing and the applications?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: I understand. It all related to the employment wage subsidy scheme, not the pandemic unemployment payment.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: When we are dealing with Estimates, we are supposed to be looking at the expenditure and the outcomes. The necessary diversion would have taken away these staff from other areas of activity. Are we able to identify the areas of activity within the Revenue that were not able to be followed up, outside of the dividend withholding tax expenditure of €2 million?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: How much is Revenue expected to pay out in the first quarter of 2021 on the employment wage subsidy scheme?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: In relation to the economic and policy division, there has been a significant reduction in the Estimate for this section. Last year there was €24 million spent on consultancy services - two and a half times the overall payroll within that section. Can the Minister of State explain what was the consultancy and why it is not deemed necessary in 2020?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: I thank the Minister of State. One of the output targets for 2020 was the summer economic statement, which gives us an indication in regard to the budgetary parameters, but it was not published. At that time, there was no communication with Opposition spokespersons that a normal statement would not be published, which is bad form. Some of us have just come from a meeting of the Committee...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: The Irish Fiscal Advisory Council, which is the independent oversight body, does not believe it is the right call. Why did the Government not publish work on the summer economic statement after the July stimulus was announced? It was still July; it was still the summer. The fact is we are going into a budget next week without any document, regardless of how much the budget diverges from...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: Forecasts by their very nature do not provide certainty; they are forecasts. I think people are reasonable and understand there is more risk of those forecasts being significantly out this year than any other year. However, it is important for the Department to Finance to note where it sees the economy going. The Minister of State should take us to the next stage. The summer economic...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: As an Opposition spokesperson who has responded to 11 or 12 budgets, I have to say that the Minister of State's statement is not accurate. The summer economic statement would have outlined the package of expenditure and tax increases planned for the budget-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: -----regardless of whether the Government delivered it on the day. It may have increased or decreased the package, but it would have been published. We are now learning about the budget through the media and doorstep statements by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and the Minister for Finance. Will the Minister of State confirm what we have learnt through the media, which is...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: I am not asking for the measures. One of the out-turns is the summer economic statement, which we do not have.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: That is what is in the Government's estimates. In that summer economic statements, we would normally see the totality of the planned package. The Minister of State is correct that the revenue figures for September can influence the package, but we would still know what it is.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: What we are hearing from the Ministers for Public Expenditure and Reform and Finance, through the media, is that the package will involve Covid-related expenditure of €9 billion, of which €5 billion will relate to the income supports while the majority of what remains will relate to health. This is Covid-related and just intended to keep the lights on over the coming period....

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: Most people would rather the TWSS was not cut, especially when so many businesses are now going to be hurt by level 3 restrictions. I wish to move on to the last point, which concerns the funding for the office of the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman under banking and financial services policy. The allocation of funding to the office last year was €950 million, and this...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: I am working off the Estimates. It is Vote 7, subhead B5. I am working off page three of the document I have here, and page 16 in the bigger document.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: It is page 16 in the document I have here, which states that the Estimate for 2020 has been reduced to reflect the actual funding required by the office. In the other document, to which I refer, on page three it states that the funding has been reduced from €950 million to €768 million. I imagine that the tracker mortgage scandal and the increased caseload of the Financial...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

Pearse Doherty: Perhaps the Minister of State will clarify what we have here. I do not know whether he has been able to locate the pages.

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