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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: It is a disgrace that the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform has refused the invitation to come here. It obviously did not wish to come before the committee to explain its role. We have spoken in private session and are unanimous as a committee in our requirement for the Department to come before us. The clerk should write to the Department in the strongest terms to tell it that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: I thank the witnesses for coming in. In fairness, the way in which they have battled with such great dignity is a credit to them. There is much political support across the board for this plight. We are seeing that ultimately the paymaster is deliberately not engaging. We have see the greatest example of it here today. Colleagues should remember that we are being watched at this...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: Has Mr. O'Donnell seen evidence of the Department of Health writing to the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform outlining its sympathy?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: Breaking down that €13 million, it is-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: Does Ms Flynn have a figure for-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: It would be helpful if collectively we could get a figure because it throws the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform's argument out the window.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: That is incredible.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: I apologise for my absence during the presentation. However, I have read the submission. I seek clarity on a matter with which the Chairman may have to assist me. Since our earlier discussion, I have received a communication which indicates that officials from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform spoke to officials from the Department of Health about this meeting. Is that the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: I am not asking whether the Department of Health took the lead. When officials from two Departments appear before a committee, one Department obviously takes the lead. Did officials from the two Departments have a conversation in which it was agreed that officials from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform would not attend this meeting and that officials from the Department of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: In fairness, the delegates do not have jurisdiction over the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. Are they representing the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: What was the purpose of having a conversation with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform about representing it at this meeting, given that, as Ms Cody stated, she cannot represent that Department?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: Ms Cody is splitting hairs. I think she knows what I am getting at. Is it correct that there was a conversation between officials from the Departments of Public Expenditure and Reform and Health about this meeting?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: As a result of that meeting, the officials from the Department of Health indicated that they would represent either the Department of Health or the Departments of Health and Public Expenditure and Reform.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: I will stay here all day if I have to because I need an answer. Ms Cody is not representing the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and no agreement was reached between the Departments of Health and Public Expenditure and Reform to the effect that officials from the Department of Health would represent both Departments. Is that correct or am I wrong?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: I would like the Chairman to direct that my question be answered. I understand Ms Cody is here to represent the Department of Health. I only require some factual information, but Ms Cody is not here to represent the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: We are making a little progress. Now we just need to get to the truth. Ms Cody is here to represent the discussion the Departments of Health and Public Expenditure and Reform had on this issue, but she is not here to represent the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: Can the Chairman tell me if the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform stated its officials were not going to attend?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: What happened then?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: When was that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: Did we express concern or what was the outcome? He communicated that information to us and that was it.

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