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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: We will now hear from Fórsa, which represents 16,000 workers in its educational division and 30,000 in its health and welfare edition, and will have a view from both sides, including the education and health service perspectives.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: I thank Ms Kelly. We will now hear from the IPPN.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: We will now have questions and comments from members. We will again work to the rota from the previous meeting. I ask members to try to keep their questions and answers to five minutes if possible.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: We will take it as given in the statement.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: I ask that Mr. Duffy will supply those figures to the committee when they become available.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: As Chair, I accept that the brief sent to the various organisation was a general one. It was not specific.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: Is there any comment from Fórsa?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: I thank the witnesses for their detailed answers to those questions. Senator Wall is next.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: I call on Fórsa representatives first, to vary who goes first.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: Deputy Joan Collins was on the call until a few minutes ago but she had to go, so I pass on her apologies. Also, Deputy Ó Cathasaigh is unavoidably unable to attend this meeting. Deputy Harkin is next.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: On the issue of the invitation, it was general but committee members are entitled to ask any question they wish of our witnesses, and it is their entitlement to either answer them or not. It is fair for someone to ask a specific question on the summer provision because it is something that is very important and is a major issue which we want sorted for 2023. That is probably the reason for...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: This issue is not the sole subject matter of the meeting but it is a general information meeting. I call Mr. Clerkin from the Irish Primary Principals’ Network, IPPN, to speak now.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: Ms Howard can come in now to respond to questions from Deputy Harkin.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: I am conscious of time and I wish to allow Deputy Ó Murchú to speak now. He is standing in for Deputy Buckley and has five minutes to speak, please.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: Speaking as Chair and as a parent, July provision was highlighted here, as it has been highlighted to the committee in recent weeks as a serious issue. If we do not make the changes and recommendations now, it will not happen for summer 2023. I gave the figures earlier, which are that 80% of children in special schools did not get any provision at all. That is not acceptable. Whatever we...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: That is up to Government to put there.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: On the supports being put in place, the reality is some schools do it but the majority do not. As each school has the same issue in trying to get staff, why are some schools doing it and yet, eight months away from next summer, other schools already have decided not to do it? It is the vast majority of them. It is the 8,000 children with the highest need who are getting no provision. A...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: They are for some schools, because some schools are doing it. The vast majority are not, so the same situation holds firm. We need to open up those eligible to work in it. I mentioned ECCE. We have people qualified in ECCE working 38-hour weeks, and then having to sign on for unemployment benefit while we have a perceived shortage of people working in that system. That needs to be changed.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: Ms Howard mentioned a co-ordinator of special needs in every school, which would be extremely helpful across schools. You need to monitor the supports kids are getting because you would hear anecdotal evidence that some of the learning supports are not being received within schools. The point was made by Ms Kelly about an absence of leadership in the HSE and I totally concur. At a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy in Education: Discussion (Resumed) (4 Oct 2022)

Micheál Carrigy: I thank Ms Howard. I will let Mr. Duffy in in a second. I conscious there is another meeting in this room at 3 p.m. I thank the witnesses for their contributions. Every question was comprehensively answered. If they wish to make any additional submissions to the committee, they should please to do so. We will more than welcome them. I apologise if there was slight crossover, if that is...

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