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Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: There was a discussion at the board. If the cost will have to be paid, it is not commercially sensitive.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: In that case, why not give us the information? We should have the information. I do not see any issue with it. If there is to be an additional cost, my estimate is it will be approximately €40 million. I am not an expert but it is my estimate in light of what inflation will be. I will ask a question rather than giving my view, which Mr. Barry might consider unfair. Is it the...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: Is that €50 million over the entire period of seven years?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: When something like that is redacted-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: -----we are left to guess because we are not in the know. When we do not know, it naturally raises people's curiosity.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: When a section of the minutes stating there was a discussion on the risks associated with inflation is redacted, it will obviously pique our interest-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: -----and still I have not heard a satisfactory response as to why the section was redacted. Mr. Barry stated an officer made the decision. Who makes such a decision?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: Does that information officer work for the board?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: Mr. Barry cannot tell us why the information officer made the decision but only who made it. Will he provide a reason?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: That is helpful. Perhaps if that information had been given at the start, I would have avoided having to spend five minutes trying to get it. Will Mr. Barry expand on his point that there will be a level of negotiation? I do not want to be unfair to the board. My understanding was that once inflation exceeded 4%, the additional cost would have to be paid, whatever it was. If there is to...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: Timing.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: It is estimated that construction inflation is softening a little. It may well be 6% to 7% this year but it may well be less next year and the year after.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: Is the board doing that type of analysis now? Where does Mr. Barry get his information from? I would imagine that if he were trying to control costs, he would be looking at the bodies that do the work in regard to construction inflation and looking ahead to what the costs will be. He said it is cumulative.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: He has a good sense of it.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: At least, however, there is acceptance that there will be an additional cost. Mr. Barry also said this at a meeting of the Joint Committee on Health. It is almost certain there will be additional costs associated with inflation. With regard to the other residual risks or other claims that may be made by the developer, is it his view that there will be additional costs associated with other...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: Does the board, or Mr. Barry as its chairman, have meetings with the Minister?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: Are those meetings minuted?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: I was not at last week's meeting but I am here now and I am asking the question.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: Are there records of the meetings? Surely from a good governance perspective, there will be somebody present to take minutes of the meetings. At the meetings, does Mr. Barry discuss the potential of increased costs in terms of some of the residual risks or reasons there may be additional costs? Does this come up in any of the discussions with the Minister?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

David Cullinane: I did not ask that. I am sure all those issues arise but I am asking whether Mr. Barry has ever had a discussion with the Minister at any of the meetings about the possibility of additional costs and the fact that there are risks. Has he said to the Minister that, while he is on target, there may well be additional costs?

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