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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Before I call Senator Paddy Burke I would ask members to restrict themselves to questions rather than commentary because we are running out of time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: The board has an input into the book of quantum. Judges do not have an input but the Injuries Board does. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Mr. O'Brien mentioned €600.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Plus, I presume, the cost of the insurance companies' own time, processing on their end.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Did Mr. Dunne also make the point earlier that poor business decisions had been made by insurance companies looking for market share? I thought he made a reference to that in his previous submission, that it was not just about efficiencies in terms of penalty points, fewer crashes and less expensive crashes but that the insurance companies went off chasing the market and that is a cyclical...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Did that happen four years after the initial reductions?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: We had discussions last week with Mr. Conor Faughnan where he said that there were rules precluding insurance companies from investing in the stock market or equities generally and that it was Government bonds. Does historical data exist? We are obviously not asking for it in the case of a particular company but is there any historical data saying that the percentage of investment income in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Deputy Doherty has made a really valid point. If the increase is 40%, 60% or 70%, the premiums of a particular class of person who has not changed his or her car or address and has not had a claim has gone way out of kilter relative to what a lot of people would regard as pretty outrageous increases in the first place. Is it a situation where it is all the actuaries' call or are there other...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I am not trying to defend actuaries. With every premium, I telephone or go online. Presumably, there are lots of computer programmes. One telephones and has a row with somebody on the phone and all of a sudden, miraculously, he or she always seems to find €50 or €80. That will not solve a €400 increase but it usually gets something off and one feels that their...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I will allow Senator Conway-Walsh to contribute again after calling those who have not spoken yet. Before that, though, is Mr. Mulligan saying that, if there are only 60 Senators in the country and one has a crash, the other Senators' premiums are liable to increase?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I am not afraid to be in it, but that is an example of what Mr. Mulligan mentioned.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Someone else might be living on a remote island. Two members wish to contribute, but I want to address something that no one has yet, although it was referenced slightly during Mr. Conor Faughnan's appearance. He wore two hats, that of the Automobile Association, AA, and that of a broker. The AA's official title for it is an intermediary. We do not want to mention individual companies,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: For motor insurance.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I thank Deputy Burke and call Senator Mulherin.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: The Senator has made a valid point about public liability and employer liability insurance. I made the same point at the first meeting of this committee last week. At the moment, the joint committee is charged with dealing with motor insurance only. Therefore, I ask the Senator to refrain from discussing other areas of insurance for now.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: On the same topic, we have had many references to the quantum of figures, volume of cases and so on. Is it fair to say that of the number of motor insurance claims that arise on an annual basis, 70% or 71% are being settled, with 20% being settled by the Injuries Board, as opposed to being assessed? The 70% figure includes the 14,000 cases involving non-liability and those that get lost on...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: It is approximately 20% of the total.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I presume not every motor insurance claim involves a personal injury. There are tips to bumpers. We all know, anecdotally, that a bus could get a tip and all of a sudden there might have been 400 people on it. We hear these stories. I presume there are plenty of bumps and tips, with people reversing into pillars and other small stuff. These people probably do not even go to an insurance...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Before getting to the board at all.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Senator Mulherin made a point that Mr. Dunne might answer.