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Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: I want to know what they replied when Mr. O'Brien inquired about their state of compliance.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: They misled the HSE.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: Does the witness have a copy of that response from St. John of God services?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: Can we be provided with that? To recap, at the time there had been great concern. Section 38 organisation employees are public servants and Mr. O'Brien has set out what that means by way of respecting the public sector consolidated pay rates and so forth.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: Is it feasible to have it circulated?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: In 2013, the HSE wrote to the section 38 organisations - it did not single out St. John of God services - regarding compliance with public sector pay norms. We are now informed that, in response to that letter, St. John of God services wrote back to say that they were in compliance.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: Can we take a two or three minute break for that?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: The main thing is to get access to the letter.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: I was conscious that Mr. O'Brien had written to St. John of God services and my initial question was to establish what they had replied. It appears, and we will see this letter, that they wrote back giving an assurance of compliance with public pay policy. That was the gist of their response.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: It has now materialised that, in fact, this was not the case. That, in and of itself, is a concern. I hope that is not the case with other section 38 organisations.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: That is very welcome.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: Mr. O'Brien indicated in his opening remarks that he has had subsequent correspondence with St. John of God services, obviously when it came to his attention that far from being in compliance they were, it appears, flouting the rules. When was that correspondence sent?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: That is 8 July of this year. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: From 2013 to the correspondence of 8 July, is there any other paper trail between the HSE and St. John of God in respect of conformity with public pay norms?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: What do we call this document?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: In that compliance statement does St. John of God reiterate or claim again that it is in compliance with public pay policy or indicate these top-up practices?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: There is another issue around compliance with public pay for this organisation. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: Mr. O'Brien cannot tell us any more than that. Is that the case?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: I understand that and I do not want Mr. O'Brien to do that either. However, I do not believe there is any difficulty with committee members asking questions about a chain of correspondence and establishing the facts. I fail to see how that would intrude on the matter.

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