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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: Okay, and then the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform signed off on it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: It was just to clarify that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: On the ventilators, officials from the Department of Health will be before the committee next week.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: I call Deputy Dillon.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: We are well over time. I will allow the Deputy back in again later on. Is that okay?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: Very briefly.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: Each year, a retired judge asks for a profile of the payments but they would not have the names of the individuals.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: They would be able to ask about informants and surveillance costs. Do they get a breakdown of this on an annual basis?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: The Minister has an oversight role.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: A previous Minister for Justice gave me a very unsatisfactory answer, as I recall it, and personalised it a little bit. I call Deputy Catherine Murphy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: I thank Deputy Murphy and call Deputy Munster, who has ten minutes. Following that, we will have a short break. As she is online, I will give her a reminder when she has two minutes left.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: The Deputy asked for a note regarding the spend on long-term leases on HAP, etc., and the value for money part of it. Could we have included in that, as part of the assessment at the end of the ten-year lease - it is mostly a ten-year lease for the long-term ones - the fact that the State does not have an asset? I will explain properly what I am asking. If the money is invested in social...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: Many people would feel there is an important differentiation between the money that is spent on renting and leasing, and the direct investment in social and affordable housing. I thank Mr. Moloney. We will suspend for ten minutes. We will resume at 11.10 a.m. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: I call Deputy Colm Burke.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: The Deputy has just gone over time.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: I will let Deputy Colm Burke back in during the second round. A couple of other members may be along later. I will ask Mr. Moloney to clarify a matter relating to the CEOs and Accounting Officers of State bodies. Does the Department require their salaries to be disclosed and published? Is that available?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: I will return to the matter of the Accounting Officers. Why is there a difficulty around their salaries?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: Mr. Moloney said State bodies that are funded by Departments are at one remove, to some extent, from a level of accountability to Ministers and so on, and are not the same as Departments. Why is there a different set of criteria for those bodies?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: Has the view of the Data Protection Commissioner been sought on that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Brian Stanley: Mr. Moloney mentioned taxation and Revenue a number of times in his replies to members. In my case, if I gave back so much to the State by personal choice in respect of the pay rises over the past 11 years, I would have evidence of it. I would have a photograph of it on my phone because we sometimes get asked about these things by journalists and so on. If a senior civil servant is gifting...

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