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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Is it valid to say that if a person refuses an award of, say, €16,000 from the Injuries Board and subsequently is given an award of €15,999, that they will have the burden of covering their costs and the other side's costs, but if they have been given an award of €16,001, they would not have the burden of those costs?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I accept that but is that not part of the problem?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I have a brief question for the brokers. Reference was made to Quinn Insurance, which is gone now. It charged a low premium and settled claims quickly. It was fine if one did not have a claim and but if one had a claim, it might have been a bit difficult. I am not sure that Ms O'Callaghan's point about windscreen cover is particularly valid. I have been driving more than 20 years and I...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: The figure we were given last week is 92%. It appears that 90% to 92% of policyholders are paying for 8% of claims. That is the purpose of insurance, so fair enough. My question to Ms Dowling and the brokers, although the brokers may not be able to answer it, is do they believe current behaviour in the insurance market is like a cartel? I am sure all of the witnesses have had dealings...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Fair enough.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Yes. What question would Ms Dowling like us to put to Insurance Ireland?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Would there be value in having a public database from which, when people input a car registration, they could find out whether a car is taxed, insured and has a valid NCT. It is important that type of information is publicly available and not only available to An Garda Síochána.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: On that point, surely a more profitable industry than currently exists will not be possible without policyholders being required to pay more than they are already paying.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I thank the witnesses for their presentations and their papers in advance. I wish to get a flavour of the CCPC for the person who might happen to be watching this meeting online or on various other media channels. Is there a staff of 20, 200, 2,000 or 20,000? I wish to discuss motor insurance, but will the witnesses first give us a brief flavour of the CCPC's main areas of activity, for...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: The CCPC's investigation is not currently into cartel-like activity.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: If it were, the CCPC would be signalling - pardon the use of that word - or indicating that it was investigating a cartel-like behaviour. It is just investigating price signalling, to which Mr. Ken Murphy of the Law Society alluded at the committee a couple of days ago. In a previous life, he had been involved with competition law. I was not particularly familiar with it beforehand. This...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: People are probably signalling all the time, possibly unintentionally. Ms O’Leary stated:We have been very concerned by these statements and this week, after detailed planning over a number of months, we issued, under our powers, summonses.... The evidence collected will allow us to establish the facts and take appropriate action. That is fairly strong stuff. It is not the case...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Am I correct in saying that signalling is not illegal, only behaviour on foot of it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: We will not pre-empt what is happening in this investigation, but has this kind of investigation into price signalling happened before?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Are the other agencies here in Ireland?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: In other countries.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: People back off.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: We have to watch and see. Has the commission ever before had a successful finding of price signalling leading to anti-competitive behaviour in this country?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Some group, it may have been the Competition Authority or the Motor Insurance Advisory Board, got documentation earlier and had a chance to consider their stuff. What barriers are there to switching now? I know there is general inertia among people but motor insurance is becoming a more significant purchase for everybody from year to year as a result of these premiums if nothing else. It...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Gerry Horkan: On the consumer protection side, each of us gets a policy and because the trend has been for a massive increase in the past few years we might haggle and fight with the insurer who then brings the price down a bit. We feel marginally better because we successfully negotiated a €200 increase down to €180 and saved €20 but in fact we have paid €180 on top of what...

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