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Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: Will Mr. Loftus make the minutes available for us please?

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: As part of this process, as the Chairman outlined before the break, we will be writing a report and as part of that we will be making recommendations which we expect to be considered. I presume this will be one of them. We have only a selection of ETBs here. It would not be practical to have every one of them here, although I am sure we will be visiting some of them again. Could we also...

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: This is only a sample. Can we just have the ones on the four ETBs? We cannot be exhaustive. We have picked four ETBs. Can we have the reports from the four that are here?

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: It is something we have requested so I take it the answer is "Yes." I have a number of quick-fire questions for the Secretary General. We are looking at integration. Can the Secretary General assure me there is a consistent policy across all ETBs on how expenses are claimed and leave entitlements? If not, why not and when will it happen?

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: Is it implemented? Is it in place everywhere on both those issues?

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: When will they be dealt with? They have been going on for four years now.

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: There are anomalies there.

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: It is going on for four years. All I am getting here is that it is ongoing. What I need to hear is that there will be an end to it soon because four years is absolutely excessive.

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: Will you also provide an update on the other item? I have a final couple of questions. Are all the chief executives based primarily in the head offices of the ETBs?

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: I have a reply from the Minister on the matter and he says it is what he expects.

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: The Minister says he expects that all ETB chief executives are based primarily out of their head offices. We might come back to that. When it comes to the issue of the directors who were appointed in December, there were three directors appointed for each ETB. There was sanction for that. They were appointed to the three different areas. I would expect they would be based out of head...

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: Would it be unusual that three-quarters of the four most senior roles in an ETB are not based in the head office?

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: Hold on a second. The Department is an oversight body. Would it not be incredibly unusual, and why would the Department allow it to happen in the first place? Would it not be unusual?

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: The boards are accountable to the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: At the end of the day it comes back to the Department. This is what we spoke about earlier in regard to oversight. It would be helpful if as a result of this the Department would supply us with a list of where the people in those positions are located across the ETBs.

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: For me, it seems absolutely illogical that, given the amount of work, they are not based in the one location, for the majority of time at the very least, if not exclusively. I accept there would be a significant amount of movement from time to time. This is my last question for now. With regard to teaching allocations, how does the Department monitor the fact that each ETB is pro rata...

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: When was that?

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: I accept Mr. Loftus's latter point and I agree with him. There are checks and balances in place at all times and what I want to know is should some schools feel aggrieved obviously they can go through the process with the ETB or directly to the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: I always like to point out any acquaintance I have with witnesses and, in that vein, I bring it to the attention of colleagues that I have known Ms Hanney for several years. I have a question for the delegates from both ETBs. The Department provides funding for schools for information and communications technology, ICT. Is all of that allocation used exclusively for schools?

Public Accounts Committee: City of Dublin Education and Training Board and Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements (16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: A centralised software application might have to be installed by head office. I will not hold Ms Hanney to this but would she say, on average, that in the region of 90% or 95%, say, of the funding goes directly to schools?

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