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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: We have been following the question of bogus self-employment for a number of years during this Dáil term, including during Covid when it was more difficult. Between the Deputy, me and others, I think we have raised it in every one of the nine meetings. It is important we follow through on that. RTÉ gave us an outline of what is happening. Out of the 168 investigations carried...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: RTÉ is only listing the ones that were carried out and presumably completed by the scope section of the Department of Social Protection. It is only referring to those ones. I would say there must be hundreds more in there.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: I think it has increased somewhat.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: Okay. Maybe the suggestion on outsourcing and decentralisation is that we correspond with the board to emphasise our concerns regarding the effects this will have on low- and middle-ranking workers in RTÉ. We cannot directly interfere in anything like that, but the committee is concerned at the level of engagement with the workers and we would like to see active engagement with them...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: Yes. There are three issues between the bogus self-employment and those two.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: Yes. About that specific one.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: Class S is self-employed.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: Okay, we will request that of the Department of Social Protection as well. Thanks for that. Next is No. R2698 from Mr. Michael Sheahan of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, dated 20 June 2024. It provides follow-up information to the committee in relation to issues raised at the meeting of 20 June. It is proposed we note and publish this item with the email address...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: I think the Deputy indicated she did not want to come in on it, but if she does she should feel free. I am sorry, it is this one she wanted to come in on, not the bovine TB one. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: Okay, the Deputy is happy enough with that. No. R2698 gives the figures for horses slaughtered anyway. There has been a slight reduction. It went from 2,256 four years ago to 1,987 last year. The interesting thing about it is it sets out that "in a slaughter plant killing and related operations can only be [carried] out by persons with the appropriate level of competence”. It also...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: It is not adequate. It is even more concerning that the designated animal welfare officer can be an employee or, I presume, part owner of a slaughterhouse and can declare that they have "committed no serious infringement of EU or national law on the protection of animals [and animal welfare] in the three years preceding the date of application for such a certificate". I find that...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: It is a very laissez-faire set-up is it not, considering that we are talking about the protection of animals? When animals are racing and doing well, they are dearly loved and looked after better than the rest of us. It is fair to say this will come up on the agenda next week and we will have an opportunity to discuss it.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: That is right.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: This is not good for the equine sector. I hope it does not have economic effects on the sector in future, given that public finances in the region of €70 million a year go to the industry. This is an issue we must raise with the Department. We will have another chance to do that next week. No. R2696 is from Ms Hanagh Byrne, private secretary to the Secretary General of the...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: The concern here is the rise in the incidence of bovine TB in recent years. It is on an upward trend again, despite all the money that has been spent and everything else that has been done. The incidence did decrease a bit at the end of 2022 when it was 4.31% of the herd, but then it started rising again. I am looking to see if there is a figure for 2023. It increased fairly dramatically.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: Was it 4.9%?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: This is despite the fact that in 2022 the cost of the scheme was €57 million. Last year, that went up to €74 million and we are still getting this kind of result. When the Department officials were in, they outlined the five main reasons they believe TB is spreading, but we must raise this with them again given the public finances and the incidence of bovine TB. It is an area...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: Yes. I suppose that the big spend is on the compensation element of the scheme.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: They actually give the size of the herd as one of the reasons for the increase in the incidence.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Jul 2024)

Brian Stanley: We will discuss that next if Deputy Catherine Murphy is okay with that. One item has been flagged for discussion under category C, which is correspondence from and related to private individuals and any other correspondence. No. R2694 relates to correspondence on Glenwood House. This is a house in Cork that we dealt with previously. It is proposed to note this item, forward the...

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