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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: Sorry, I meant to say per ETB, not per school. From where do the ETBs gather that funding?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: It is funding that would be put into something else if it did not have to be allocated for this purpose.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: I do not have an outline of the functions of ETBI. Why is it not just part of the Department of Education and Skills?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: I would like to be absolutely sure, from an educational point of view, that there is not a loss across the whole ETB sector in respect of the capacity of ETBI to do other things arising from its total budget of €1.268 million plus. If each ETB is providing €40,000 or so, we are probably talking about approximately €1.6 million or €1.7 million?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: I will move on to other matters.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: I understand that, but I see it as similar to the Local Government Management Agency, with which I had dealings as Minister. Why can the Department not do this particular work instead of having an additional layer?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: I will get back to shared services. What performance indicators does the Department use for measuring the performance of the ETBs? Presumably key performance indicators, KPIs, have been in place since 2013. Will the delegates provide a copy of them to the committee or otherwise publish them?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: I will ask the question again. I assume the Department has had KPIs in place since 2013 to assess the impact of the massive change in the educational sector in Ireland which was the introduction of the ETB sector. Putting such measurements in place is a basic thing to do at management level. Will the Department provide those measurements to the committee and the findings made in respect of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: How does the Department know the sector is performing well if it there are no KPIs in place?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: Sorry, the witness said he had them in relation to SOLAS and further education etc. but the witness does not have them in relation to the education and training boards?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: Why would the Department have them in those areas and not in ETBs?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: That does not fill me with any confidence. In fact, it is the total opposite. I would request, as of today, that the Department operate a similar model as they do in the other sectors because I am afraid that in hindsight we could have issues purely because such a model was not in place. From an ETB perspective, I would like to see key performance indicators and I would like to see...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: No, we are not covering that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: Will Mr. Ó Foghlú consider my request?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: Can I ask the witness-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: All the more reason to put them in place. If they are not in place how can the Department measure the improvement in governance capacity, measure proof of the performance of the ETBs, and measure capacity to be fully aware of the educational performance that is going on?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: I have made a request. I would request that Mr. Ó Foghlú write back to the committee in the next two weeks on his decision. When it comes to shared services, the witness spoke of having created one shared service already and he went into detail with that. Where is the Department going in relation to shared services because Mr. Ó Foghlú has not mentioned what is No. 2 ,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: I read that and I read the dates but is that it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: What are they?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 26 - Education and Skills - Reform of Education and Training Boards/SOLAS
SOLAS 2016 Financial Statements
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 99 - Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
(16 Nov 2017)

Alan Kelly: No, I am talking about the ETBs now. The witness has spoken about what is being done in relation to one shared service. I am asking if there are other shared services. Again, I repeat, I used to be a Minister in charge of local government and I know about the roll-out of shared services across the board. Presumably, other areas are going to be moved into that as well.

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