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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: The regulator does.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: I will return to a point made by Deputy Sherlock. For the purpose of understanding this issue, I will describe the credit institutions resolution fund. The target level of funding for the resolution fund was €100 million and it was envisaged that the credit institutions would contribute €25 million per annum for four years until the €100 million target was achieved....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: Mr. Carville did not address the credit institutions resolution fund.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: Mr. Carville should address the fund we are talking about.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: Mr. Carville stated there was €250 million in the credit institutions resolution fund, of which €30 million had been used to address difficulties in the credit union movement. The question members asked is why the levy imposed on financial institutions continues to be collected after the four-year collection period has elapsed. The hole in the credit union movement's finances...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: Have all the credit institutions met their obligation in respect of the fund?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: Every other financial institution that was expected to pay into the credit institutions resolution fund has done so. Do they continue to make payments into the fund in its fifth year or do they have a legal right to refuse to continue to pay into a fund that was established for a four-year period?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: The fund was for established for four years.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: The Department imposed on the credit unions an annual levy of €7 million for four years. They now have a right to stop paying into this fund because it is now in its fifth year. They are asking when the annual payment of €7 million will cease, which is a fair question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: No, the Department asked for €7 million per annum for four years. On what legal basis is it asking the credit unions to pay this sum for a fifth year?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: Is it provided for in legislation?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: If there is legislation around the fund and it refers to specific timeframes and so forth, the Department is illegally taking money from the credit unions in the fund's fifth year. They should be repaid with interest and penalties if we were to adopt the position taken by the Revenue Commissioners on money due to them.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: I am simply stating that if the Department did a deal for four years and it is effected for a fifth year, there is something highly illegal taking place.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: Will Mr. Carville tell us something if he comes back? The merry-go-round does not suit anybody and we are all getting sick of it. I thank both delegates for coming. I would like them to look at the transcript of the meeting to help them to determine the questions on which they have to come back to us. They can then write to the clerk with the answers. Both of them said they had to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: I ask them to come back to us as quickly as possible.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the joint committee. However, if they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: Is the Senator's question whether it is for the sector?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: I will pick up on a question from Deputy Sherlock about the number of credit unions about which Ms McKiernan is concerned. Her answer to Deputy Sherlock was that an analysis was done in 2014 and that an analysis will be published some time this year. What figures did Ms McKiernan have in mind when she gave that speech on 8 March?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: I understand that but on 8 March, Ms McKiernan made this statement so she must have made it with certain figures available to her. What figures were available to her on 8 March?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Overview of the Credit Union Sector: Discussion (23 Mar 2017)

John McGuinness: I just want to know the figures to simplify it.

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