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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2016: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: One could argue that we already have a rainy day fund in the shape of the Strategic Investment Fund. We are not allowed to spend it as long as the fiscal rules remain, at least as they currently are currently formulated, precisely because of the expenditure rules. What use is there in having a rainy day fund if we are going to be constrained within this limited fiscal space?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2016: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: The rules are blatantly pro-cyclical in the sense that if one had a recession tomorrow with 0% growth then one must cut spending. Those are the fiscal rules as they currently exist. Governments just say these rules exist to mitigate the pro-cyclical bias. It is impossible to explain that the existing rules are not pro-cyclical. If there is a crisis or recession further austerity will be...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2016: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: Both the structural deficit and a ten-year growth are arbitrary figures. The point is also how they interact with the other rules. The Minister has said that the fiscal space this year is €1 billion.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2016: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: If everything were to remain the same except for a GDP growth rate of 0% this year and a projected 0% rate next year, can the Minister tell me roughly what the fiscal space would be?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2016: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: Why not?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2016: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: The Minister is surrounded by calculating machines.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2016: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: I did the figures previously. I do not have them in front of me.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2016: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: I did the figures previously and they were negative. I think it is obvious that they would be negative but I did them regardless. It proves the point that the figures are procyclical. The Minister can say what he likes and that they are not but they are.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2016: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: No, the Minister should share his figures with me next time. He should come up with his calculations.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2016: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: Regarding the other areas, we have this recovery but the figures significantly overstate the recovery. We can have a big discussion about the nature of the recovery, where its benefits are going and the fact that the majority of people do not feel it. How will we have a real recovery that is felt by the majority and that leads to sustainable growth and increases in living standards without...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2016: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: I am all for a growth in tax revenue; the question is where it comes from. Regarding the public service, we had 320,000 public sector workers in 2008. At the end of 2015, there were just under 300,000 public sector workers, just over 20,000 public sector workers are missing when our population has grown by, I think, 270,000. How is it possible to provide quality public services to people...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2016: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: Appointments are detailed in Vote 17. Reference is made to 3,053 appointments to date in 2016.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2016: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: Yes. Elsewhere, I think in the same category, reference is made to an increase in staff numbers of 8,000, so there seems to be a discrepancy between the number of appointments and the increase in staff numbers. Is that accounted for by people in temporary positions and so on?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2016: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: The last question, a key one, is pay restoration. It is clear now when one considers the teachers and the gardaí that workers will not wait for the pay restoration schedule planned by the Government. We are talking about workers who suffered because of the crisis and who, under pressure, agreed - I would not say volunteered - to give up pay. Now they hear all the talk about the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2016: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: Why not do it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2016: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: I am not sure that is the cycle we came through. I am not sure that we had a crisis because wages were too high. I think it is because we decided to bail out a bunch of banks and developers and put that cost onto the people but-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2016: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: Concretely, the gardaí's pay claim, which I support, poses a serious challenge to the Lansdowne Road agreement because they are saying they will not wait, that they will take action and the Government will come under pressure. I would support the exertion of this pressure to give a concession. Does this not pose a challenge to the Minister's strategy for dealing with pay restoration?

Written Answers — Department of Finance: NAMA Investigations (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: 41. To ask the Minister for Finance if he will support a full investigation into all of NAMA's major portfolio sales in view of the recent concerns regarding the sale of NAMA's Northern Ireland portfolio; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27619/16]

Written Answers — Department of Finance: State Aid Investigations (29 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: 22. To ask the Minister for Finance if, following the judgment from the European Commission concerning a company (details supplied), an analysis as to the extent to which other multinational corporations may be liable for taxes to the State or to other jurisdictions has been undertaken; if this amount has been quantified; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27618/16]

Water Charges: Motion [Private Members] (28 Sep 2016)

Paul Murphy: I wish to share time with Deputy Bríd Smith. Mass movements are very powerful things. The impact of the huge demonstrations and the 73% non-payment is reflected in the Chamber. It is reflected in the hokey cokey of Fianna Fáil - for water charges, for suspension, for abolition, for suspension again and for abolition again, but it is going to vote against abolition. The...

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