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Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Breen has already said 99% of claimants start with the legal approach. Let us not talk about the others.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: Let us say the first letter arrives from a solicitor and they then go and get the medical report, while the agency obtains the reports it needs. How many cases are settled without the involvement of counsel? How many court dates were there, with adjournments? Mr. Breen must know how the figure of 100% is broken down.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: Please give it to us in layman's English.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: It is important that the lay person can understand it. Even if a large chunk of claims are settled on the steps of the court, in their own psyche the claimants effectively have gone the whole way. I do not want people to think only a tiny number of claimants go to court. A lot of them have a court date set, but I know that Mr. Breen does not have a figure off the top of his head.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: Will Mr. Breen give us separate information for clinical and general indemnity cases? There are probably two patterns.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: During the break Mr. Breen said he wanted to correct something.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: We have a note on general indemnity cases.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: I always thought the figure was €2.4 billion or €2.6 billion. What was the figure at the end of last year, or in the financial statements for 2016?

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: Does anyone have a copy of the annual report?

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: In which year?

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: We are now saying that ten months ago the liabilities on behalf of the taxpayer were €2.66 billion and that today they are €3.2 billion. The figure has gone up by €600 million in the past ten months. Since 1 January 2017, it has gone up by a clear €1 billion.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: No. I am giving the totals. Total liabilities today are €3.2 billion. At the end of December last year the figure was €2.66 billion, while at the end of December 2016, it was €2.2 billion. In the 22 months from 1 January 2017 to date we have gone from a figure of €2.2 billion to €3.2 billion. Can Mr. Breen understand the Committee of Public Accounts...

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: At the end of 2012, the last time we had a report, the State Claims Agency had 5,755 claims under management, with an estimated liability of €1.1 billion. Between 2012 and 2018 it has gone up by 200%, from €1.1 billion to €3.2 billion.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: Most of the money will be found in the health budget - in the budget for building the national children's hospital or the national maternity hospital. The State Claims Agency needs to realise that the less money that comes in, the less we will have to build facilities. It may be paying €400 million, but in two years' time it may be €600 million or €700 million, which...

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: I will ask a hard question. If there is a settlement for €1.5 million, legal and professional fees will be €500,000, or approximately one third of the total. That means that of a total of €3 billion, there will be €1 billion for the legal profession. I know there will be people giving out about me because of this, but instead of paying out on an hourly basis for...

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: Will Ms. Jackson send the committee the terms of reference?

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: This is a much bigger issue now. It is legal reform. The Troika tried to do it and it did not succeed.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: The current legal system does not allow the State Claims Agency to have barristers as its own employees. They have to be brought-----

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: I have made the point.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Seán Fleming: Is there an estimated-----

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