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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland: Ulster Bank (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I would like to develop that point as I had intended raising it. In terms of every loan or customer relationship that was passed on or sold to a vulture fund, is Mr. Blair telling us that if 100 survived and 1,800 went to vulture funds, approximately 200 or 250 must not have gone to vulture funds? Were there any situations where a stand-alone performing entity was moved to a vulture fund?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland: Ulster Bank (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Would Mr. Blair be able to verify after this meeting whether some were transferred because they did not suit the bank's business model, or for some other reason? I have had representations from people who had perfectly performing businesses that were doing nothing wrong but whose debts were transferred to vulture funds. They are finding it incredibly difficult to deal with those funds....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland: Ulster Bank (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Will Mr. Blair go back and find out if the bank did that? Will he find out if performing entities were sold off?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland: Ulster Bank (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: What was the discount on the loans that were sold off to vulture funds? Was it 80%, 90%, 10% or 20%? Is Mr. Blair in a position to disclose that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland: Ulster Bank (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: That is unsatisfactory. We would like to know what hit was taken. Mr. Mallon in his opening statement referred to a "challenging regulatory cost environment". What exactly does he mean when he says that a challenging regulatory cost environment is adding between 7% and 9% to the base of the bank's business?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland: Ulster Bank (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Is Mr. Stanley suggesting that it should not be there?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland: Ulster Bank (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: One could make the point that the bank is still paying its €1.5 billion dividend to its parent organisation, so it is not making the bank unprofitable. It is simply making the bank less profitable than it otherwise would have been.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland: Ulster Bank (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Is Mr. Stanley saying that the dividend is a really only a return on investment rather than-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland: Ulster Bank (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: When a company is paying dividends, it can be assumed it is doing so because it has generated significant operating profits. Mr. Stanley is saying that this particular dividend is really a return on capital that is in excess of the bank's requirements rather than a performance related dividend. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland: Ulster Bank (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Senator Rose Conway-Walsh referred earlier to the bank's network of 110 branches. Representatives from other banks have been before this committee and have spoken about technology and so forth. Are the witnesses in a position to say that the branch network is unlikely to go below 80 or 60 or 40? Are there ten or 40 branches being examined with a view to turning them into cashless or...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland: Ulster Bank (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I saw a reference. Mr. Mallon was with Danske Bank previously. It had cashless branches in the Republic.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland: Ulster Bank (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Will Ulster Bank go in that direction? Is it still an all-Ireland bank or is Mr. Mallon the director of Ulster Bank (Republic of Ireland)?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland: Ulster Bank (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: That was not always the case.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland: Ulster Bank (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Mr. Mallon does not envisage Ulster Bank going cashless.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland: Ulster Bank (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: Ulster Bank will not do it in the short term.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland: Ulster Bank (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I thank Mr. Mallon.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Costs of Business Insurance: Discussion (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I am conscious that Senator Conway-Walsh, Senator O'Donnell and myself must attend the debate on the Finance Bill at 1.30 p.m. but we will try to continue this discussion for as long as possible, despite the fact that we have been here all morning. It is a very important topic and we want to give it as much of a hearing as possible but I ask contributors to ask questions rather than make...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Costs of Business Insurance: Discussion (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I am not sure that is a fair conclusion.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Costs of Business Insurance: Discussion (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: I remind members that the Governor of the Central Bank will be before the committee on Tuesday, 20 December-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Costs of Business Insurance: Discussion (1 Dec 2016)

Gerry Horkan: -----and we might raise with him the concerns expressed at this meeting along with other concerns.

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