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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: The minutes of the joint committee meeting of 6 December were agreed at our meeting this morning. We have apologies from Senator Maria Byrne and Deputy Matthews. In today's session, the committee will engage on the topic of the credit servicers directive. On behalf of the committee, I welcome the Master of the High Court, Mr. Edmund Honohan. We are honoured to have him here and we are...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: We will resume in public session. My apologies that I had to leave to attend in the Chamber, but I am thankful Deputy Conway-Walsh took over. I wanted to ask a number of questions. I acknowledge, as did others, the great work carried out by Mr. Honohan in this area and the insights he gives to people in distress of one kind or another with regard to their mortgage or loan. Whether Mr....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: If the loan is sold again to another fund, the same applies. The mortgage papers are presumed to be there or they can be inspected.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: Where there are complications with the paperwork or there is a stand-off relating to the person who is in the property on the commercial end of it, a receiver can be appointed.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: No, but aside from that. I am talking about commercial properties. Those commercial properties might involve a housing estate.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: Does that happen?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: Not that a receiver is appointed. Does it happen that the receiver acts in the name in the borrower?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: It happens that a receiver is appointed and it happens regularly, but based on my experience, it would appear the receiver is more interested in pleasing the person who is about to take over the property than the person who is in the property.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: Are receivers regulated?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: So they are not regulated, and can do as they please within-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: Again, it is for the person or people in the property to take that case to the courts.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: Therein lies a big issue. Is that right?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: There seems to be no willingness from anybody to address it, or no willingness for it to be highlighted by those who are central to the knowledge of how it all works.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: I will go back to my bank again, and the person with the mortgage who is a customer in trouble. It is sold on to the vulture fund, and the banks sell that at a knockdown price and they set that off against their losses. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: So they do not lose.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: No but they set the balance.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: The only real loser in this is the mortgage holder, the person who took out the mortgage originally. They more than likely have lost-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: True but they lost nonetheless, and is also then faced with having to - if they would want to do it - go to court against the bank while having no money. They are really a class of people who are beaten down by the daunting task of having to face a bank with deep pockets.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Credit Servicers Directive: Discussion (13 Dec 2023)

John McGuinness: There is no legal aid there.

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