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Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: I thank all the witnesses for coming in today. To get it clear in my head, the difference between the Mr. Moloney's department and the Department of Finance is his Department has oversight of any money that comes out. Could Mr. Moloney give me a briefing on this?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: The Department looks after oversight. Is that its main role?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: I want to discuss Vote 29 - IT and procurement overspends. Mr. Moloney will be aware that we had the Arts Council before us a few weeks ago. It had effectively wasted €6.7 million in taxpayers' money on a failed IT system. If the Department is involved in oversight, how could this have happened at its hand? How was this not sorted out before it ever came to us?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: Again, Mr. Moloney's Department is responsible for oversight. In all the years there was an issue regarding the Arts Council, was there no oversight by the Department to see where that €7 million went? At the time, going across all the Departments as well, the Residential Tenancies Board and RTÉ were also examples of IT projects. Is the vendor that was used for those specific...

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: If Mr. Moloney could, that would be great. I would like to know if that vendor is still in use across other Departments.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: I find this very difficult to understand when it was such an issue and such as waste of money. The Department is responsible for oversight. I find it difficult to understand that this IT provider would still be in use and right across other Departments. Does Mr. Moloney find that difficult to understand?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: Does Mr. Moloney think that vendor is still on the list then?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: Yes, I thank Mr. O'Sullivan.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: If a State organisation came to the Department about the money it was spending and said it was in over their head and did not have the right resources to decide if this IT system was working for them, would the Department help in that instance?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: The Department would provide assistance.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: Does it provide expertise to them at that stage?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: They had a long list of times it had come back to the Department looking for assistance and they did not get it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: Would the Department view that as not its problem or is it somebody else's problem?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: What is the Department's role and responsibility?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: When we look at the waste of taxpayers' money on the failed IT project we just discussed, there are also the PPP; nearly €1.5 million spent on a security hut in the Department of Finance next door; €600,000 for a revamp at the Department of Transport; the shop out the front of this building was €1.3 million; and then the bike shed. Who had oversight of all those...

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: And who is that again?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: In Mr. Moloney's Department.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: I am so confused about this. What is Mr. Moloney's Department's role then?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: What if the frameworks are not working?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Cathy Bennett: I thought Mr. Moloney's Department had nearly a similar role to us and that before anything ever comes to us, the Department would find issues like this and make sure from the point of view of oversight and value for money for people, that these they did not happen.

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