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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: General Scheme of the National Cyber Security Bill 2024: Cyber Ireland (17 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: Realistically, every business that uses IT, which is basically every business, will be in some way affected by this.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: General Scheme of the National Cyber Security Bill 2024: Cyber Ireland (17 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: Whether it is the smallest shop or the one-person operator, anybody dealing with anybody else will be impacted through having to ensure they are doing the right thing in terms of cyber security.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: General Scheme of the National Cyber Security Bill 2024: Cyber Ireland (17 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: We saw the impact of the HSE attack and how the smallest thing, such as somebody clicking on something or using an old computer with the passwords left on screens or on desks, could have an effect. All of a sudden, it was seismic, given the hassle it caused, the cost of recovery and the slowing down of productivity. We are here using phones and laptops. All that stuff is everywhere. People...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: General Scheme of the National Cyber Security Bill 2024: Cyber Ireland (17 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: I am trying to get my head around why that is in the proposal. Are we limiting our scope to access the best technology from wherever it comes? When I was growing up, it was historically Sony. It is more Samsung now. Places like Korea, Japan and China do a lot of tech, and probably do it well. Are we limiting our ability to access the best stuff by saying it must all be owned by certain...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: General Scheme of the National Cyber Security Bill 2024: Cyber Ireland (17 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: My concern is that we are not able to access the best technology wherever it is from. I get the risk and concern, but I am not sure it makes sense until the infrastructure is in the EU. Maybe it is, but if it is not, are we going a bit too far too fast in saying that we better start setting up stuff when we do not have the best technology? Cybercrime does not respect borders. Those...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: General Scheme of the National Cyber Security Bill 2024: Cyber Ireland (17 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: The EU comprises 27 member states. We would have historically traded a lot with Britain. The latter would be out of the loop if the company involved were based there. If this were applied, such companies would be in trouble. In its submission, IBEC submission states that it agrees with the vast majority of what is in the general scheme, but there are certain elements that it believes need...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: General Scheme of the National Cyber Security Bill 2024: Cyber Ireland (17 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: IBEC is not a member of Cyber Ireland.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: General Scheme of the National Cyber Security Bill 2024: Cyber Ireland (17 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: IBEC's concern is that if this is not amended, there is a risk that functions will be applied arbitrarily and unfairly and that sweeping powers will be granted. The concern is that some individual in the NCSC will be able make all the decisions themselves. The Chair may have alluded earlier to there being no real oversight.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: General Scheme of the National Cyber Security Bill 2024: Cyber Ireland (17 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: I am no expert, but organisations like Cyber Ireland and IBEC are raising concerns. That is what we are here for. It is to tease out whether the concerns raised are valid and whether they have been allayed or addressed. Mr. Honan thinks that there is a greater level of protection and that there would not really be as much of a problem as IBEC thinks.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: General Scheme of the National Cyber Security Bill 2024: Cyber Ireland (17 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: Only Belgium and Croatia have transposed the directive.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: General Scheme of the National Cyber Security Bill 2024: Cyber Ireland (17 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: The law in Belgium was a straight cut and paste from the directive. IBEC states that head 3 goes further and that the NCSC should be the adviser rather than the entity that pushes the button to say "No" or "Yes". There should ministerial or political oversight or oversight by a particular body in order that there would not just be an individual, a particular civil servant, or head of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: General Scheme of the National Cyber Security Bill 2024: Cyber Ireland (17 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: Everybody would want that. None of us wants to see what happened to the HSE happen again, either to the HSE or any other entity. We are reliant on technology for everything - payment systems, Google Maps and so on. We use our phones all the time for everything. If your phone's battery dies, you feel like your right arm has fallen off. What we are discussing is important. The concern is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: General Scheme of the National Cyber Security Bill 2024: Cyber Ireland (17 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: If the committee is making recommendations, we should make sure we talk to the people who have to implement the stuff about whether it is workable and what the challenges and problems are. I do not mean that we should bow down and accept everything they say as the right way forward, but we should tease matters out with them in order to ensure that the eventual Bill will be workable and will...

Seanad: Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Second Stage (17 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: I welcome the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Charlie McConalogue, to the House.

Seanad: Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Second Stage (17 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: I thank the Minister for his comprehensive opening statement. Group spokespersons have ten minutes but if they do not need the full ten minutes I am sure that will be fine with everyone.

Seanad: Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Second Stage (17 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

Seanad: Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Second Stage (17 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: Is that agreed? Agreed.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Chair Designate of An Post: Discussion. (16 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: I am not festive but I thank the Cathaoirleach very much for saying so.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Chair Designate of An Post: Discussion. (16 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: My outfit is not that Christmassy. However, we will talk about that another time. I thank the Cathaoirleach again for noticing. I thank Mr. Mulvey for being here. There is no doubt that he is more than suitable for, and capable of, doing the job. Well done on his appointment. I am delighted he is taking on the role, to which he brings so much experience from many different aspects of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: Chair Designate of An Post: Discussion. (16 Oct 2024)

Gerry Horkan: When I was a councillor, I did not regard my leaflets as junk mail, but some people would say they were. If An Post guaranteed delivery of such leaflets to every house in an LEA, people would pay a premium for that service. I understand An Post does not have such a system at the moment. My understanding is that it is possible to secure delivery across Dublin 12, Dublin 14, County Dublin or...

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