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Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: Is that grade 10?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: There are 81 grade 8 or above staff.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: From CHI's report, I can see that there are 81 grade 8 or above staff at the hospital. When grade 8 was established across the HSE in 2005, there were only eight grade 8 staff in total. It seems like there is a huge amount of staff now. Will Ms Nugent confirm whether the former CEO is at the same grade as herself?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: On her retaining her salary at CHI, she had been on two fixed-term contracts. We know that she was then, subsequent to mediation, offered a fixed-term contract. Is that what she is on now?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: Is the former CEO on a fixed-term contract?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: Regardless of what contract she has been offered, she is probably on what we call a contract of indefinite duration, so she is now a permanent employee of the hospital. Did the Department of Health know she was going to be staying on in this new role?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: I presume that, as part of the mediation agreement, CHI had its own lawyers and was aware it was retaining her in what would turn into a full-time contract of indefinite duration with all the ancillary benefits that go with that.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: Does the Department of Health wish to comment?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: The Department of Health was kept abreast during the whole process of the mediation agreement?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: Regarding litigation claims, we know the contractor has made claims of up to €853 million in costs. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: Apologies. The board has potential claims against BAM for €31.5 million under the terms of contract. I believe Mr. Gunning gave that information.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: They are the liquidated damages that the board might possibly reclaim. There are also PC sums that must be worked out and other ancillary claims that are perhaps available. I am a TD for Dublin South-Central. The hospital is in the heart of the constituency. There are many houses around the perimeter of the hospital that have had different claims, perhaps against the board of CHI,...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: Sorry. I meant to refer to Mr. Gunning.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: Are those amounts already accounted for?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: One of my colleagues asked the question of how long the board would be in existence. A period of 18 months after the guarantee was mentioned, or was it once the guarantees expired?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: Mr. Gunning intimated that the development board may be engaging in its own litigation. Mr. Gunning mentioned the €31 million that could stem from litigation. Obviously, that litigation could take more than 18 months.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: Obviously, the board will have to continue as is until all the disputes are resolved.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: Otherwise, the development board will not be able to recoup moneys due to it.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: Even for the legal entity to remain so that money can be paid over.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board and Children's Health Ireland: Discussion (22 May 2025)

Catherine Ardagh: That is all. I wish the witnesses the best of luck and I hope the hospital opens in June. Looking at it from the sky, it is a fantastic piece of architecture. The taxpayers are disgusted at the cost. There is a sentiment out there that people spending taxpayers' money do not take as much care as when they are spending their own money. I mean that across the board. We all need to be...

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