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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: We move on to Mr. Sugarman's job in the bank. He says-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: I understand what Mr. Sugarman's job within the bank was. There is an audit committee there.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: Was the breach reported to the audit committee?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: Mr. Sugarman's job is to report it to the CEO.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: And to inform-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: And to inform-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: Within that bank, apart from the accounting section, the audit committee and the responsibilities of the CEO, the bank was audited. Mr. Sugarman need not mention the audit company's name. He already did. The bank was audited.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: The bank got clear accounts for every year.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: That audit is not just about figures. It is about governance and accountability.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: It is about the bank's requirement under law to comply.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: All those boxes were ticked and the bank was shown to be a well-performing bank.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: Between 2007 and 2009, the law and regulation as issued weakened.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: The law and regulation weakened in 2009 compared with 2007 with reference to implementation and all that was-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: Mr. Sugarman is saying that in 2009, in the context of that-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: They reissued the law without implementation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: What was the consequence of that in terms of a risk manager and the bank?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: Is Mr. Sugarman now saying this is not the case?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: If this happened in 2009 after the law was reissued, what would the consequences be? Would Mr. Sugarman have to report as he did and would the speed be-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: So all of that is still the same.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking and Financial Regulation: Discussion with Mr. Jonathan Sugarman (13 Apr 2017)

John McGuinness: So why is Mr. Sugarman making the point about 2007 versus 2009 and the 2009 document not having implementation in it?

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