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Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: How could-----

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: This is more piggery pokery going on. We are not allowing the people to see the pig. I repeat my slogan: let the people see the pig. The Minister of State is most disingenuous. First, he is in this fantasy land where he says the Government will reform the Dáil in some massive way. No one believes that. Not a single person believes that, not even in the Minister of State's party....

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: I am sure he will remember the good parts, including when Humpty Dumpty said words mean what I want them to mean, no more, no less. That is the same with emergency legislation. There are rulings all over the place. The Cathaoirleach is a very decent and honourable man but I have challenged several of his rulings when I think they are absurd. We have had situations here under previous...

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: Shall.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: I am very grateful for the support of Senator Ó Domhnaill but could he point me to the reference to "felony" in the Bill because I cannot see it? I wonder whether there is a confusion with a briefing on abortion. No? I would be very interested in seeing it.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: No.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: If.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: Less presumptuous, Minister.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: With the greatest respect, I am challenging your ruling. It is in defiance of logic. The fact that amendment No. 2 has been ruled out of order as it is in conflict with the purpose of the Bill clearly shows that the purpose of the Bill, as far as Government is concerned, is not to give the people a referendum but to extinguish the Seanad and that is the logic of your ruling. That makes it...

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: I am making them now because you have raised this question and I am challenging your ruling.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: Will you please explain the ruling in regard amendment No. 6? I do not accept your ruling for one second. My amendment No. 6 states that each and every separate amendment required by any move to destroy, abolish or in any other way mutilate Seanad Éireann shall be listed and recited in full and printed as such on any ballot paper purporting to provide for such destruction. In what way...

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: It does not vary the Acts. That is rubbish.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: That is nonsense. I do not agree with that. It is allowing the people to see what the Government is doing. How does that vary the Acts?

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: How does it vary the Acts?

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: On what advice? Did you get legal advice?

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: What was that advice?

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: There is more democracy. We have secret advice, which is a load of rubbish.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: No one in their right mind would believe it. This does not conflict with the Bill and I object to it.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: Let the people see the pig.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Jul 2013)

David Norris: The Cathaoirleach wrote to me purporting to rule out of order amendment No. 15 which is related to this and which reads, "and substitute the following: "proposed to allow the people of Ireland to exercise their democratic right to vote whether or not to retain Seanad Éireann or to concentrate all power in one chamber and the political parties who have membership of that House.". That is...

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